11 days ago I wrote a blog entry entitled Points policy change thoughts and yesterday I read through the 257 comments that message generated. There were lots of helpful ideas in the comments, and I'd like to comment on a bunch of them here, in a new blog entry.

I have always asked for a change to be made in "keep it forever:" due to the fact that you may not keep forever BMjournals mooched, but if you prefer people to recycle popular books it might be better to suggest "you do not have to relist all books in your inventory but are encouraged to recycle wishlisted books and BMjournals promptly."

I like your suggestion and will do it shortly.

this was very interesting:

stefano: My solution is akin yours, John: 1. Consider the book listing bonus as an advance payment: when the book is mooched, the moocher pays 1 point, but the book owner receives only 0.9 points (she already received 1/10 point when she listed the book). The 1/10 reduction may also be seen as a "delisting charge" (the book is no more listed). idea: 1.1 to mooch, or 0.9 to mooch, both possible

You're right, that every book you give away earns you 1.1 points:

You get 0.1 for listing it
You get 1.0 for sending it

That's another source of inflation.

I see two ways of dealing with this, either:

You get 0.1 for listing it
You get .9 for sending it

or

You get 0.1 for listing it
You get 1.0 for sending it
But the sender pays 1.1 to receive it.

I'd have to explain the +0.1 as "an advance, you get the remaining 0.9 when someone mooches your book"

What do people think of this?

I would like to see a "not trading" status, so the books on the lists of vacationers and possible inactive, don't show up as mooch-able. This would also give a more realistic picture of the possible moochers for our inventory.

This happens already. Anyone on vacation is "not trading" and their books are removed from the BM inventory.

To put someone on vacation, mooch from them. If they don't reply after 2 weeks, cancel the mooch, indicating they were non-responsive, and their account will automatically be vacationed.

Multi-mooches are not necessarily an incentive for non-US senders. We don't have flat-rate envelopes here in France either - each parcel is weighed, so multi-mooches would cost the sender more. and In terms of multi-mooch, from the commentary I've read, this only seems to benefit the USA with its flat-rate packages. Many of the rest of us are weight-based and while there is a tiny improvement of £/100g as the package gets heavier, and Please don't change the international points! And the multi-mooch bonus is (as lots of people have commented) only a bonus if you live in a country where flat rate mailing is possible. Here in NZ we're charged by weight. Multi-mooches can actually cost me more to send per item if the additional weight tips into the next bracket. Please keep in mind that not all moochers live in the US or UK, and what's great for you guys may be awful for the rest of us. and As mentioned elsewhere, “multi-mooching” would unfortunately not be an improvement. In Germany (as some other European countries mentioned here) we pay per weight. I have not yet posted a package where 2 paperbacks were under 500g, doubling the postage. and I agree with many other comments from Australians; it doesn't cost us less to send multiple books - but more, often a lot more, as we pay by weight and a different rate depending on the country it is being sent to, and parcel rates get put up by our postal service every 3 months. So I wouldn't want to get less points for sending internationally; which I do a lot.

I don't agree with these comments against multi-mooching.

To recap : the idea behind multimooching is that the 2nd mooch from the same person would cost you less (perhaps .8 pts) and BM would make up the difference, so the book giver still receives 1 point.

This helps save the book sender money in postage.

In most postal services in the world, it is cheaper to send 2 books in *one envelope*, than it is to send 2 books in *two envelopes*.

How much cheaper?

In France, I found that 250 grams cost the same to send internationally as 1 kilo, and a kilo is a lot of books.

In the UK, it costs £0.81 to send 250 grams, and £1.11 to send 500 grams, a 32% savings.

In Germany, a domestic package up to 2 kilos costs €3.90 while a domestic package up to 10 kilos costs €5.90

If your countries' postal system doesn't work like this (perhaps because you bump up to another postage class) then send the books in separate envelopes to save money.

I'm finding people list books, but then when I go to their profile, they're sitting on 20+ book to send out. One woman had over 60 to send when I wanted to Mooch something. That shouldn't be allowed. Maybe a system of not allowing any Mooches if you have over say 10 waiting to go out or they've been there longer than 2 weeks. And by any Mooches, I mean you can't Mooch and no one else can Mooch from you.

A few comments about this:

1) if you think she's acting in bad faith, and doesn't plan to actually send those books (it's a judgment call you can make by looking at her bio) -- *ask her by email* why she has so many books to send. And if you don't like the answer, click the "report abuse" button.

2) there could be an honest cause for this: a good moocher who is traveling at the moment, and so has a lot of backlogged requests, but wanted to mooch a book with the points she has while traveling.

John, I thought you might be interested - A member of another book swap told me that a rumor was going around that there are a high percentage of books that aren't received here. I have had very few problems but that kind of rumor may have had some affect on the use statistics.

We've never seen that as a significant problem at BM. Maybe 10 scamming members over the entire history of BM have managed to do that, and it happens very rarely nowadays with the new oversight controls the admins have.

I’ve been looking at the bookmooch statistics and I would just like to point out the following: Date................Points/Member.......Books Listed/Member 2007.8.18_________ 3.6 ___________ 9.2 2008.8.18_________ 4.8 ___________ 6.1 2009.8.18_________ 5.2 ___________ 3.9 2010.8.18_________ 5.4 ___________ 2.4 2011.1.09_________ 5.5 ___________ 2.0 The current point system leads to an increase in average points per member because points are added to the economy each time someone mooches a book (+0.2 points per domestic mooch, +1.2 points per international mooch). Probably, as people accumulate more points, their motivation to add books to their inventory decreases. If people had fewer points, they would probably be more motivated to add books to their inventory in order to generate some points. This would seem to indicate that we need a point system that keeps the average points per member lower, thus motivating members to add books to their inventory and send books to other members in order to generate points.

Your math is *almost* right, but wrong in an important way. The number you're using for "points in the system" currently includes all points, including those from inactive accounts, which account for 80% of members. In order to give an accurate idea of points inflation, you need to divide "books available by active members" by "points owned by active members"

Roughly, if you divide the available points by 5 (only 1/5 of existing members are actually active) you get very different results.

However, I agree with you that this is a potentially very interesting chart, and I plan on producing a mathematically accurate one soon.

I've bumped into a lot of people recently who are not sending books they have listed currently. I understand the financial reasons, but that also adds to the draw on available titles.

Click on the "report abuse" button. If someone is listing books in their inventory but not willing to send them, that's not right. They should remove those books from their inventory.

John, here's a prospective idea. What if those 0.1 points are *never* given for listing books that already have, say, more than 10 copies in the system? Might that help cut down on potential abuse? Or help encourage people to donate those to charity instead or something? I don't think that would be unfair; it's not a punishment, as people can still list those books if they want (and potentially earn a point if it gets mooched). It's just a lack of reward, because the listing itself does not give anything to the community, so it wouldn't need rewarding.

Here are a few objections I have with that idea:

1) there might not be copies of that popular book in your country. For instance, maybe there is lots of Dan Brown in the USA, but none in the Philippines. Definitely the person listing it in the Philippines should get the +0.1 for listing it.

2) It'd be very complicated, for example when/if you remove books from your inventory, I also remove the +0.1 you received. If you received the +0.1 for listing some books but not others, then BM would have to do the same when removing the books, and this would both be complicated to program, but also quite complicated for members to understand. Often, it would simply look like a bug: "why did I lose 0.1 points when removing some books from my inventory and not others?"

3) The top 200 most listed titles account for only 2.5% of the total inventory on BM. I don't think they're much of a problem.

Conversely, it might be a great idea to give an extra 0.1 point or something to people who post a book with more than 5 (or 10?) wishlisters. Those two in conjunction would balance each other out, and might help shift BookMooch inventories just a little more towards variety. And I'm sure we would all love to see more variety!

That's a variation that might work, but there are some complications too:

1) I did mention that a wishlist bonus existed when BM started, and was removed because of the weird behaviors it caused. A common one was that people would not list books until they were wishlisted. Probably, with what you suggest, the same problem would occur, with people not listing books until 5 people wishlist them.

2) Geographic spread is also an issue here: if you list a book that's rare in a certain country, that's really nice of you, and should be rewarded.

3) a related idea that I've toyed with is that potential moochers could add a "reward" on certain books they really want, saying "I'll smooch 2 points to whoever gives me this book I really want to read"

I'm also okay with the idea of putting a cap on how many books a person can earn 0.1 point for in their inventory. Say, 100 books, or 10 points total? That seems reasonable, and it wouldn't hurt anyone long-term, as anyone who's listed more than 100 books has probably got dedication (and sufficient points to start mooching) towards the site, anyway.

I'm not too hot on this idea for a few reasons:

1) some of our best members have given and received several thousand books. Every book they add to their inventory enlarges our universe, and I see no reason to demotivate them.

2) same problem as above: "It'd be very complicated, for example when/if you remove books from your inventory, I also remove the +0.1 you received. If you received the +0.1 for listing some books but not others, then BM would have to do the same when removing the books, and this would both be complicated to program, but also quite complicated for members to understand. Often, it would simply look like a bug: "why did I lose 0.1 points when removing some books from my inventory and not others?"

Eliminating the 0.1 point for marking a book received, in every situation, also seems fair. It's not necessary; anyone who's planning to stay active in the site is *going* to mark books received. The incentive might help newer members remember, but I've always thought it was a bonus that was nice but totally unnecessary. I think that, to most people, "telling the person who sent you the book that it arrived safely" (especially when the system provides a way to do this with very little effort) would be an obvious common courtesy.

Thanks for all the people who agreed with this -- your feedback was the cause of my announcing that change: End of +.1 for leaving feedback

I think points should be awarded when the book is marked received. Not when accepted to send, and not when the book is actually sent. This would curtail the practice of accepting books to send and then not sending them... as there would be no reward for that dishonest and/or forgetful behavior. and I would like to see the mooch points held in reserve, and not given to the sending member until the books have been marked received. I noticed that when I had to cancel, because the member had not responded for several weeks, their pending listed them with both mooches and sends.

I disagree for a few reasons:

1) this would hugely slow down international trade. It's not unusual for a book to take 8 weeks to arrive somewhere, and in the meantime the person who sent the book can't participate in BM until the book is received.

2) we have very little fraud of this type (people saying they sent books but didn't) as it's caught very quickly by people reporting abuse and the admins jumping on it. Also, we monitor accounts that say they're sending a ton of books out internationally on their first few days of joining. That's pretty suspicious and their ability to mooch with those points is limited until the books start arriving at their destination. Algorithms running in the background at BM mark lots of behaviors as "needing admin oversight", which simply means that an admin looks at them and monitors them by hand, applying limits as they see fit. This system of the having admins watching certain accounts has worked really well.

3) the "first day thrill" on BM would be very much curtailed if I changed this. If you're honest (and almost everyone joining BM is) it's great to list 10 books, get 3 mooches, and then in the same hour, mooch 3 more books as you package those 3 books to send.

4) BM is a community of trust, not of suspicion, and this policy sends a very clear message of trust. PBS, I feel, is a much more untrusting, suspicious place, and from what I read, the number of trades per day is much lower for most users, because of their approach.

Someone who uses PBS explains why they don't like that approach:

I use both Bookmooch and Paperback Swap. Paperback Swap is much more stingy than Bookmooch and I don't like it as well for that reason. If I send a book using my own postage I don't get my point until it's received. Because of that I miss books I've been waiting for as my point has not come in yet. They also don't give anything for listing, etc. Why I wonder. These points cost no one. The more points people have the more they will mooch and the more others get and the busier the site. Even people who don't send, eventually you cancel and that point is taken away.

What I proposed earlier was an auto-vacation of sorts. If a user has not logged into the site in 3 months (or whatever amount of time is determined), the system sends them an automated email, similar to a mooch request, that lets them know they have not logged in in 3 months and asks if they wish to remain active on the site. All they have to do is click a link in the email (or generally log in to the site) and their 3 month clock starts over.

I think it is safe to assume that 99% of users who would ignore (or never receive) that email would also ignore (or never receive) a mooch request. A frustrating experience for the person trying to mooch from them.

They are only put on vacation. If at any point in the future they log back into the site, their account is active again, all their books back on their shelves, etc.

The users of the site should NOT be responsible for weeding out bad/inactive accounts. I understand wanting to make the most books available, and that someone may send out a book even if they have not been active in awhile. BUT most users who would send out a book will also take 2 seconds to keep their account active once every 3 months by clicking a link in an email.

Many users consider it an unpleasant experience to request a book and have the sender never reply. Sure, we can auto-vacation them. Some who have been on the site a long time may even enjoy this task. But I really doubt your newer members find it enjoyable, I think most would find it frustrating.

(Perhaps - though I'm not sure how well it could work - those points could expire? So say for your first 10 books, you get the 0.1, and after a week, it expires. A newbie can list 10 books, mooch one within a week, and hopefully by that time someone's mooched one of their books and they're starting to get more points in.)

Accounts that are "temporarily on hold" still have their books show up in search results, yet you cannot mooch them!

Another problem with inactive accounts is their wishlists. There are inactive accounts with 0 books in their inventory, meaning none of us can vacation them (nor should we the users be responsible for this...) but their wishlists are still active. Well the problem is they never log in to claim any wishlist books.

SO when it is time to list a book, I see that three people have it wishlisted. Yay! Only all three people are inactive and no one ever requests my book. Boo :( I think most of us have probably had that experience...

This also slows down the effectiveness of wishlist notification emails. Emails get sent to these inactive accounts, and deny active users a chance to receive quick notification that a book they want is on the site. I know that one of the big sources of frustration for users is not receiving wishlisted books... cleaning up inactive accounts should help with this problem as notifications will be more efficiently sent out to active accounts!

Oh, that's a good suggestion, I think I'm going to say something like that the next time I put up a request post! Thanks John.

I also like Becca's idea, am not sure if it needs twinging, but generally sounds good. As long as it's not too complicated...

Oh, yes! Not to mention how annoying it is when you think a book you really want to mooch is available, only to find out that none of the copies are really available after all, because the person or people offering them are "on vacation" and apparently intend to be "on vacation" permanently.

I also love the idea of the "reward" I have a good 100 books on my 2000+ wishlist that I would gladly give an additional 2 points for!

But there are hundreds, if not thousands, of accounts that are "possibly inactive" and grossly so, by 100 days+, that ARE receiving wishlist notifications. And many of these accounts have no books in their inventory and cannot be vacationed by the users.

It drives home the point that people can't find what/anything they want, though I was just going to ask an Angel again, since last week there were at least some books available only-in-America.

I found a book I thought I might like, and could see that 6 copies are available. I clicked to mooch. One was international (and not to my country) so unavailable to me.

Copy 1 - Member inactive 405 days (4 books on their wishlist)
Copy 2 - Member inactive 370 days (30 books on their wishlist)
Copy 3 - Member inactive 294 days (29 books on their wishlist)
Copy 4 - Member inactive 58 days (5 books on their wishlist)
Copy 5 - Last here 18 days ago, expired reservation for overseas (indicating that someone probably did the "ask me" and never got a response) (2 books on their wishlist)

I mooched all 5 copies. I have plenty of points and if I get extra copies I can relist them. I'm a little skeptical that I will get any of the copies though.

Is this a reasonable thing for me to be expected to do? Most users would not do that, which is why inactive accounts proliferate the site.

An additional person was inactive for 300 days with 0 books in their inventory.

Do you still think that point inflation is the biggest problem facing the site right now?

Would the post office employee let you take some of the forms home? That's what I do, and it makes my post office trips significantly shorter! :) If you write out the addresses and statement of goods at home, the post office employee just has has to fill out a small amount in the store.

As I've mentioned multiple times, I think one of the biggest priorities for BookMooch should be to reverse catalogue shrinkage. I do see how reducing or minimizing inflation can have a positive effect on catalogue size, but I hope that you are thinking about a more direct change that could be implemented.

I do like the idea you mentioned though:
potential moochers could add a "reward" on certain books they really want, saying "I'll smooch 2 points to whoever gives me this book I really want to read"

It's not something I've ever thought of. Perhaps we could even have a forum where people could list books they'd be willing to pay extract for?

How about two wishlists? One with books you are willing to pay and extra point for and one that your not? I have maybe 20 books that I would be willing to pay the extra point for some I would be willing to go as high as 3 (maybe 5 books) I have a few books available on my wishlist but they are overseas and I'm not willing to pay the extra point as they are for sale at $3 at Amazon. The only problem with this is older members again like paperbackswap would have the advantage as they have the points to spare.

As for just giving 0.1 for the first 100 books... This shouldn't be hard to calculate. It doesn't have to be for those exact books! It is an addition of your books listed and the books sent out. Once you've sent out 100 books, you would never get deducted. Not a programming nightmare! Books sent plus books listed, if you go under 100 you start losing the 0.1. This is a simple algorithm. Come on this is definitely inflation that can be adjusted to a minimal 10 points. #sent + #list <101 0.1 is added or deducted depending on whether they are adding to inventory or removing from inventory. It is not certain books that get the 0.1 it is the first 100 listed/sent.
I agree with fern above that it should be capped but not for days on site but amount you can earn. 10 points is enough for a new member to start mooching.

Also on the credit earn when mooch is accepted... until you mark sent, the mooch can be canceled/rejected, I think the rate is close to 10%! I really think it should be when sent. Yes it is trust, the trust that it has been SENT. PBS does not do that. I hate the getting credit when received on PBS because I think you should get the credit when you have put your effort into packing and sending. But I also think it is wrong to get it before you have sent. Some books are months in the waiting for them to be marked as sent. It is a loan, debt, credit. I get the new people can mooch right away but isn't that what the first 10 credits above is for? The listing credits. OK if it is really for newbie how about a limit to that say the first 3 books requested will have immediate credit?

Irisin has a good point and I've heard it before and never have mentioned it on the forum. The search engine is seriously flawed, quotes don't work. If a name has initials and a common last name your scr***, like J.R. Ward for instance, even with quotes it is hopeless. I've gone to going to Amazon listing all the books of the author I want and putting in the ISBN one by one to search for certain authors. Put Karen Chance (an author) and you get 4 hits 2 Karen Keast, 1 Megan Chance, and 1 Karen Chandler. That is using the author search also, it does nothing.

Thanks for the open forum.

I don't think there should be a limit to number of sends. I've had 20 books going out in one send alone. I think I got smooch half of those though.

"In the UK, it costs £0.81 to send 250 grams, and £1.11 to send 500 grams, a 32% savings."

Not true.

Those prices are correct if posting within the UK TO the UK. However, for those prices to apply the item being posted must be no thicker than 25mm. They have to DROP through a test slot at the counter without any assistance. 25mm.

The majority of single books might be within weight limits but after wrapping in the flimsiest materials few are within thickness allowance. Try getting 2 or more books wrapped and have them be below 25mm thickness.

UK mail prices are dependant on weight AND dimensions. Send something overseas and the problem just compounds. Multiple mooches make me shudder.

Those prices you have given are the very minimum it costs to mail within the UK. Most paperbacks fall within the 2 higher limits which you have not listed - £1.51 + £1.91. For single books WITHIN the UK.

Multiply the books and the costs multiply right along with them.

32% saving.....I wish.

I don't find it nearly as annoying as you do that people who are inactive still show up on wishlists; certainly there are plenty of people who ARE active who still don't mooch the available books on their wishlists.

I guess I regard the whole thing as more of a game--I post a book, maybe the wishlisters will mooch it, maybe someone else will, maybe no one will. It's part of the fun to see what will happen.

As far as mooching from inactive members, and needing to cancel and vacation them, I see that as something I should do as a member of this community. Doesn't take much time, and again, it's part of the fun--will this person respond, or won't they?

I'd do the same but I have far too many points to use up as I had been stockpiling points prior to a postal increase here - more fool me!!

I'm sure I have more than enough books to stay dormant for the trial period. As I only send internationally I guess I'll just have to start buying books locally from now on, it won't be any more expensive and at least they will be new.

I am very sad as BookMooch was a very important part of my life for many years.

I left another swap site that I had used exclusively for a while because members would not send items out in a timely manner and others would not mark items received, thereby leaving "open" items on pending list. Both are areas I consider very important.

Thus far every item but 1 that I have mooched has been sent out promptly, packaged wonderfully, and received in good--excellent condition. The 1 item has a delayed shipping date. The member involved in this transaction advised me immediately of the delay and asked if that would be OK with me. That member's politeness, consideration, and overall courteous attitude is so greatly appreciated.

I always make sure to provide a Delivery Confirmation Tracking # on all books I send. So far, I only have one book that's been delivered that hasn't been marked as received. Probably just an oversight, so I'm willing to wait at least a week before I start bugging the receiver with an e-mail.

Again, I'm completely happy with my BookMooch experience and think I've found a home. I'm a retired lady on a small fixed income. I don't have a large inventory at present nor a large budget for acquiring new items. BookMooch, I think will help in both those areas.

Also that is 9.09% less not 10%

and I also agree that we should manually vacation moochers who *actually* don't respond when being requested a book, not just because X months have gone by.
People may not want to log in every certain amount of months when they get no requests (something like that might just make me quit the site if I were in that position) but might still be willing to send a book (and we won't know until we try and request the book).

I'm not sure if this is how things work now, but I think that it used to be that when a user is on forced vacation and someone cancels a pending mooch from them without indicating that the user didn't respond, said book would go back into the inventory instead of being hidden. I don't think that this happens too frequently but it still may be a source of books that are listed but shouldn't be available? (see this example with a closed account: bio:ghast)

I would just like to reiterate that it is *not* always cheaper to send 2 books per point in Canada. Canada goes by both sized and weight (And they measure each cm believe me!). It is not usually a matter of putting them in separate envelopes if they are above usual letter thickness. I am not sure how putting them in separate envelopes would 'save money' anyway, would this not be like sending two separate parcels? And sending together for anything but the tiniest books will not necessarily save any money here. I wholeheartedly agree that it would make much more sense for Canadapost to handle it this way, but sadly they do not.

So, multiple mooches does NOT necessarily save money. I just want to make sure that is very clear in case further changes are planned. This would be another change based on what works for the US system only.

Thanks for listening.

Either way, the biggest problem with either solution is that it requires a lot of explaining for it to make sense to a new user; the "1 point to send, 1 point to mooch" thing is intuitive. Intuitiveness is very important for gaining and keeping new users.

Better to just eliminate the 0.1 for listing books. Or at least put a cap on it (so new users can earn their first few points that way, but that's the only cause for inflation). I like the 0.1 point for listing books -- for all the mentions you've mentioned, John; they are good reasons -- but if you only got 0.9 for sending, well . . . that would kinda seem to defeat the reason to like that 0.1 point in the first place. Even if it works out exactly the same, psychologically, I think it *will* make people think, "Well, PaperBackSwap gives me more for mailing things!"

I really do like the multi-mooching idea. As long as the sender still receives the same number of points, that's a *fantastic* way to encourage moochers to get more than one book from the same person. I especially think it would be valuable if you launched this before (or around the same time) as the increase in points for international mooching. That way, people who mooch internationally could still potentially get a really good deal (through Angels who send them a lot of books at once, for instance!), which would lessen disfavor from the price increase.

And, I mean, if sending two books in one envelope is more expensive in your country, why not put them in two envelopes and send them separately instead? Presumably we put books in our inventories because we'd like them to get mooched. If two get mooched by the same person, you can either put them in one envelope (if it's cheaper) or put them in two (which makes it the same price they'd be going to two separate people). Even in the latter case, you may not get a discount on shipping, but you got an extra mooch more quickly. So why not? Can't see how it could hurt anybody, as long as no one's *forced* to mail things together if the price is worse that way! :P

There could definitely be good reasons for a person to have lots of books to send pending. They might have run out of money and be waiting until their next payday. They might be Angeling and waiting for the rest of the books to arrive put in one package. They might be collecting books to send to one friend and not have a totally full box yet. They might only have time or the ability to make it to the post office once a month, or something. I personally don't care how many books a person might have pending, or even if it might take them awhile to send (well, in most cases), as long as they don't go non-responsive or evasive on me.

Excellent point about the geographic spread, John, and that is something I hadn't considered with my changing-the-way-0.1-points-for-listing ideas. If so-called "junk books" aren't currently a problem, then I agree that we're definitely better off without overcomplicating things. Thank you for thinking things through. You are terrific with this. :)

Oh, and thank you, John, for agreeing with me that BookMooch is a community of trust, not suspicion. That's exactly one of the reasons I feel it's much better to award points immediately, rather than holding in reserve like PaperBackSwap does, but I couldn't put it into words exactly. The international aspect is another major reason. And the "first day thrill"! Yes! Yes, exactly! That's EXACTLY what made me fall in love with BookMooch over PaperBackSwap so quickly! Especially when you realize that's one of the aspects that makes BookMooch so trusting and welcoming, while PaperBackSwap is all wary and suspicious. One might get burned sometimes if they're going out and giving everybody a chance, but if they don't, they'll *never* find those trusting, lasting friendships that make life worth living. Where PaperBackSwap acts like a wary schoolteacher, BookMooch is more like a loving best friend. Which makes for such a better community.

Yeah. BookMooch rules. Thank you for creating it! :D

From what I understand, different bonuses have been award in the past that have now been eliminated, I believe a 0.1 condition notes? I'm not sure as I was not part of the club then. Well the older people that were here got those bonuses, and extra points that I did not and will never. Is this unfair to me? No. I have received 30 listing credits from books I have sent already, how would limiting listing credit now be unfair to me? I already got extra bonuses for starting with the club, in fact more because I've been here and the club is dynamic. I am saying all members, including me should have a cap of 10 credits or less, for books listed right now. I am not saying dock the long time members or take away points. That would be just wrong. Even if they are devalued, they still cost us money to build up.

Here is a scenario for these extra credits in the system -- So many people have extra credits and cannot spend them. We are talking right now about offering 2 credit for a more wished for book. Suddenly books are costing 2 credit per book because people holding out until they are offered 2 credits for the books on their shelf. Hey suddenly my 100 credits are only worth 50 books if they are wishlisted at all. Big devaluation, even more than the 1.2 credits per book we had, and the 1.1 credits we currently have. How would you like your well earn credits be worth only 50% now? Suddenly it is a 2:2 for wanted books. New members would be making 2 credits per send where we made 1 because we have so many points to spend. That seem more unfair.

Inflation has to be curtailed. Before is gets out of hand with too many points in the system. Getting new members into the club, a growing club, could handle the extra points. With out the growth, we must stop the printing of points that are not earned, and probably devalue the points in the system until they are spent down somewhat. Hence I think we will see a lot more of the 2 point mooching for wishlisted books. I really don't like the idea. It should be a 1:1, but that's life of any economic system.

Capping the points stops the bleed. How about we just get rid of the listing 0.1 altogether? Oh well that stops the incentive to list right? For anyone who has built up points, they don't need extra points and it won't entice them to list any more than they already are. (like me) For those that have spent down all their points, they have mooched more than they have sent. They should be building up their points by sending not listing. The only bad thing about getting rid of the 0.1 listing credit is NEW members.

I don't mind the wishlists-of-inactive-members problem as much, but I agree that it can be disappointing to see that a book you're listing is on three wishlists . . . and then discover, weeks later, that nobody's mooched it all this time because all three of those accounts are inactive.

*Are* inactive members getting wishlist e-mails? I assume so; I don't even see a problem with that, as some smaller people may be inactive only because they've traded all their current inventory and are waiting for wishlist books to pop up. I do hope vacationed accounts aren't getting wishlist e-mails, though. As vacationed accounts can't mooch, it does no one any good for them to receive them!

I don't know if it would be a programming nightmare to take care of this if it isn't already in place, though. Would it?

I like Becca's idea of an inactive account automatically vacationing itself after three months unless the user clicks on a link in an e-mail. Three months is a long enough period of time that it wouldn't seem naggy or annoying, and most people who have been inactive that long are likely to be uninterested in the site, anyway. While we can help out by mooching and vacationing nonresponsive accounts, it would be very, very nice if that problem would take care of itself after a certain period of time, as well. There are so many inactive accounts around that it takes too many people too much time to keep tracking and closing them all. Wouldn't an automated system, which pulls the burden off humans, be preferable to this?

BUT I am against an incentive for multiple mooching. For me, and maybe a lot of other people, I am counting on my bookmooch books getting mooched one at a time (it does not really happen, a bit like buses, often several get mooched by different people). But I sort of hate it when several mooches happen at the same time, because the money spent on the post office is so much more noticeable and mentally I can compare it with buying several new books - yeah I could wait and send it spread it, but I *can* not do that.

Also you know sometimes sending the books, particularly out of Europe, is not really a totally rational thing, it´s partly to send the book to somebody who really wants it. I really don´t want to and will not send many multiple books internationally, it will be terribly expensive even sent separately.

If you do decide to go ahead and do put an incentive for multiple mooching, please please do not go overboard, just stick it to 2 or 3 books. And I assume it would be OK for bookmoocher users to put on their profiles they can not send more than 1 or 2 books to the same moocher?

http://www.newbooksmag.com/

Link to Newbooks website, in case you don't know about the mag. Well worth looking at.

With the UK, alot of people are spoilt for choice: libraries and great charity shops plus ebay and Amazon. I've got a Kindle too. We've never had it so good really but I am sure there are more people out there who would join, if they only knew about it! The big selling point is the friends you make and getting books to people who wouldn't otherwise have access to them.

I am sure there are other ideas we could come up with to increase membership but it would need some encouragement and co-ordination, John.... I'm sure there are lots of people out there who are willing to do their bit for BookMooch!

The TV, of course.... Books receive very little TV exposure but this is going out at the minute. Do we not have someone out there who knows someone who can put in a good word.... There's also World Book Night coming up in March.

http://www.worldbooknight.org/

There are lots of book festivals over here. I've never seen any BookMooch advertising: Edinburgh in summer, Oxford etc.

The site needs more exposure!!

IMO these moochers are even LESS likely to send after these changes, while - as many people from small countries like myself - we will be unable to get anything for our points anymore.

I just can't think of anything that would make American moochers send internationally apart from an (impossible) forcing system, so I do fear - like people above me - that BM will end up like all the other swapping sites we cannot participate in anymore, because they are US or UK only, and our countries are too small to have a working BM system (I checked out attempts).

*sad face*

Weeding out dead accounts is of course a priority.

Encouraging diversity in listing isn't helped by emphasising most wishlisted books - I already cannot wishlist all I'm looking for, because most of these authors are not listed at all and I couldn't wishlist their whole amazon catalogue, but I manually check for them regularly.

Right! What ever happened to supporting the European Union mutually? Never mind the entire globe...

There is a 'request books from your friends forum... That may work for you.

I have few complaints about this site. The only experiences that frustrate me here are the instances when I request a book, the member accepts (with no indication that there will be a delay), and does not send the book for a prolonged period. In two instances I've been certain that members were using "my" points to mooch while making no effort to mail requested books. I canceled my requests, but the experiences were frustrating. I would suggest that points be awarded only when the book is mailed (as TitleTrader does). I request a book, a point is deducted from my total. The member I mooch from accepts, mails the book and only then gets the point. I've read most of the comments generated in the last few days, and see nothing that would argue against this change. I agree with you that waiting until the book is marked as being received to award the point has several downsides, but I don't see any to waiting until it is in the mail.

Second bit: While I don't disagree that the .1 point for marking a book received was unnecessary and inflationary, further constricting the economy will likely cause a reduction in transactions. As in the "real" world, modest inflation and economic growth are not only compatible but inseparable.

Thanks for all you do.

I also belong to a UK swapping site. I list here first and if a book is wishlisted here, I do not list on the other swapping site. If all of the wishlist accounts are inactive then this is a waste of time.

As the other site has provided a lot of BM members with wishlisted books (I actively sought them)then I want to keep putting books into whichever swapping system has a reader who wants the book.

Please, please can we also have a regional level. I have mooched books from the US, listed them and they are then mooched from the US and by BM members who do not send internationally. This does not make economic or environmental sense. I am not proposing to lock books in Europe, but perhaps regional groups would mean that more people would be willing to send internationally.

Many people (especially those on ask me) are asking for multi mooches but searching huge inventories puts me off and often I decide not to mooch.

My problem with the idea is that someone could mark a book sent that they have not sent and then there would be a 6 week wait domestic, 4 months international before the "lost" feedbacks would appear on the bio. That's time to mooch a lot of books. Someone not sending at all, in spite of reminders, could get vacationed/negative feedback much sooner.

edit: And the person gets to keep their ill gotten points if the books are marked "lost". And you can't leave a "negative" on their feedback nor vacation them so someone else doesn't get taken in.

Two more comments, if I may. I think that any added points for books you want should be determined on your own. Aside from posting and waiting in the Mooch From Your Friends forum, you can sometimes email an international moocher, and offer them extra points for a books. The worst you'll get is an emphatic No! Which was they're right anyway. (Can you tell I've tried that? XD) I also think that multi-mooching should be determined on your own. You set it in the condition notes for that book (to those it applies) and maybe in your Bio, maybe in your status. I think these deals should be sorted out depending on your financial situation and on how quickly the books are going or how generous you feel.

@Belladonna1975 - I remember reading your post because I own quite a few Fables but am very much attached to my collection. Personally I own none of the books you have listed, I think quite a few people who post in that forum also comment on other posts, and I can imagine going a few weeks, but with reposting once in a while, if you like, you may find something. I wish you luck in either case.

Cara - Are you arguing for leaving it the same, getting points when you accept the mooch, or not getting the point until marked received? See the point of getting the points after marked sent is that there is a trust on this site which is quite nice. Yes, there are unscrupulous people who would used points from books not actually sent but hopeful the pattern can be detected. And the way it is now, they can do that even easier.

Now I argue to change until mark as sent for two reasons. 1) if a person marks sent but hasn't sent, like your first scenario, at least they would have a deadline. Right now there is no deadline at all and the credit/debt can be used indefinitely.

I would point out some accounts, but I don't want to point fingers. None of the people on this forum has this problem, but... there is a lot of it out there. Some are actually very active bookmooch members but they have 100 plus books in their pending for months, slowly going up and down, and have used up all the points. They use this "credit" to mooch books from the system before they actually have paid any money on postage. At least giving credit only when marked sent would give a deadline, at most 4 month for International mooches.

This would eliminate mooching by members that haven't actually earned points and leave those book to members that have too many points.

Having Lost books against your account is something I always look at. If it is over 3% I have to start wondering. I believe there is a limit before the account would be flagged.

I think credit for multiple mooching Internationally... I'm really on the fence here. I mooch 3 book twice from Germany and both members sent them in 2 packages because sending them together was nearly twice the charge. It would get more book into the system for some countries. I would probably, as I already do, try to find some other book they wanted. Still wouldn't it be an extra point in the system?

How about the 2:2 for sending Internationally regionally.

Edit: As Cara points out below, we do have this. It's the last line in each offerer's block on the Mooch page, and even has "(possibly inactive)" for the long ones. (It's been awhile since my last journey into the depths of despair. I think I've become allergic.)

Yet...this incident should not be a big deal because I am an honest person who made two simple "mistakes"...one the office hours weren't memorized (or they have changed) and two, I did press sent as i was leaving the house. They are in the back of my car awaiting tomorrow morning send off, but still...I did not have to do anything to prove the books were off to their destination. Now I will go let six or seven folks know what happened, and send them the books tomorrow...but whats to stop the dishonset person who is here to scam free books, well nothing.

I'm thinking say it isn't at all wrong to protect a site, with good policy and I was just thinking that whatever can be put into place as a rule to protect the honest folks, (so that we will get the books over scammers) should not be something anyone would want to argue over I like the way so many are voicing their opinion here, and the way John appears to be taking every word into account. But I am with the few who are saying let's keep it civilized...it is good to make rules that protect and enhance a great site like this. Even if your bottom line isn't what is was once...no one had to save up points here, so if they were used sooner, there would be no loss. I have tried to keep it close to a one book for one ratio, but I have requested a few extra since many folks dont accept for a long while in my opinion.

I am waiting to cancel many mooches that have not been responded to...so, If anything...the very thing i would enhance first on this site (personally) would be the idea of having a quick response courtesy, and giving some credit for speedy service. And something be done, so that when we order/request books, they dont appear on our page as mooched...since we may have to cancel, and never recieve the book. That just makes a person look a bit greedy, and I don't want folks thinking I am not genuinely generous. My generosity may be that I don't mind getting books that looked like they have been thru the grist-mill, while sending out nearly new books, nearly everytime. My generosity might be that I send very quickly every single time, or decide to go with first class mail...stuff like this.

Whatever happens, I absolutely will not be able to keep up the momentum on this sending & mooching spree, that I am currently on. And all my "maybe I'll pass along" books are already listed here (except magazines), since many (of my maybe 400 book library) books are "to read asap" on my shelves I plan to keep if they become important to me through reading them. I have four children who may like them too.

I will only want to send most of my books out AFTER i have made time to read them. So my inital 25 books swap in about five days, looks like i am going to be a good swapper, but I am fairly sure i will never reach this momentum again....ALTHOUGH I AM WILLING to {thrift shop for bookmooch wishlists} I suppose, but I will need to get ink in the ol' printer and print up a list to take along with me next time. My memory isn't worth a bag of old bananas, anymore, so I am going to bring along a list of the top 50 or 100 books wishlisted next time. WELL at least I can't remember a bunch of bad *stuff* from my past either...haha, theres always a silver lining to things, i guess.

Take Care All~
Tikay

-john

Not giving points until the books are received would not be a good policy. As John pointed out, it doesn't seem very trusting. Also, what about the books that are never received? I've sent out a couple of books that got lost. Mayhap the moocher never received it, but I did package the book, pay the postage, and send it through the post and it wouldn't be fair to withhold points for something outside the sender's control.

BTW Doug - PBS does give an extra 2 credits for the first 20 book posted. I find this to be a little skimpy. I think they used to give 3. In order to start the mooching, you got to have points.

Tikay - I always always marked sent as soon as I have the book packed with the delivery confirmation. 1. I put a bit of effort into packing. 2- Sometimes I put postage on from home, still it might take 2 days for the book to get picked up, but I paid. (again effort and money spent) and 3- The moocher can cancel until you mark sent. If you send and then don't get back to your computer for a day, the member could have canceled and then you are out real money until you sort it out. I've had two friends this has happened to. I have never taken over 24 hours to send out a package after marking sent. If something happens to even delay it a day, I send a message that they are label (paid) and ready to go out the next day. If, god forbid, something happens like an accident, I think most people would be really understanding. If people write me and tell me something happened, I'm am really, really patient. Don't tell me anything, don't answer emails, and I remember and avoid mooching, unless they have a really incredible book. :-) Never have done it.

I'm partial to Disney World **grin** but have a great time anyway, John!
Amy

A pain some people who tried this site before me have is that they were always too late to mooch books they wanted.

It's true that the Italian postal system has tripled fees for shipping abroad, AND (just as in the UK) our postal fees depend BOTH on WEIGHT and DIMENSION of the envelope, making multi-mooching not convenient.

If I was to send abroad more than one book in the same package I'd be really sorry because we simply don't have flat rates. I don't want to annoy you with the table containing the complete cost/dimension ratio (in case, it's here - http://www.poste.it/postali/prioritaria/tariffe_estero.shtml), so I'll give you some examples.

To send a single paperback to the USA I have to be sure that it is 381mm long, 305mm wide... and ONLY 20mm thick! In that case, if it's between 100gr and 250gr, it costs 7,00 euros. If it's between 250gr and 350gr it costs 8,50 euros. But this is very rare, because the vast majority of them exceed that limit of 20mm., so sending a single paperback abroad from Italy costs 10,00 euros if under 350gr.

Sending TWO books in one envelope, even if they doesn't exceed weight restriction, implies a huge cost rising because they'll also surely be more than 20mm thick. Shipping them will cost from 10,00 to 25,00 euros, depending on their weight.

Sending the same two books in two separate envelopes would cost from 20,00 euros to 28,00 euros, so sending multi-mooches for Italians is hardly an option. Mooching internationally a used copy of a book could cost more than buying a new one.

Please, don't assume international multi-mooching is cheaper: for many of us (especially us Italians) this is simply not true ^____^

Oh, and good Disneyland vacation ^_____^

You're in my neck of the woods! Have fun in Disneyland!

I know plenty of people do use Bookmooch as a sort of for-pay worldwide interlibrary loan program. For them, re-listing books is a way of life. It keeps the bookshelves clean and keeps books in circulation. Bravo to them! But that's a choice, and not a requirement.

Me, I use BookMooch to mooch books. To keep. I send a book (that I own but don't want) away, and then it belongs to someone else. They might read it, re-list it, or tear it up for an art project -- that's their right. When I receive a book, it's mine, and I expect the same rights. (This is why I get a bit annoyed by those BookCrossing books in the system -- the sender often seems to think they retain some degree of ownership over what is now my book.)

BookMooch, in my head, is not a loan facilitator. It is a trade facilitator. There is a difference. It has no business telling me what to do with the books I've received.

"To be perfectly transparent, the post office rates from France to the US are:
1. book rate (document économique): 250g - 3.05 euros. There is no rate for 1000g."

jacquie, I just wanted to point out that there's a price difference between book rate ("tarif livre et brochures") and economic rate ("tarif economic").

with book rate, at 250g - 500g, a book sent within Europe will cost 0.87 euros (yes, 87 cents!). to the rest of the world, the same book(s) would cost 1.45 euros. yes, we are very lucky to live in France ;)

and it rarely ever takes longer than a couple weeks to get the book delivered... even though the people at the post office will tell you otherwise.

for more information about tarif livres, including all the prices, check out this page on the post's website:
http://www.laposte.fr/courrierinternational/index.php?id=372&pdt_id=52#accroche60
(click on "Champs d'application / Tarifs" for the prices)

happy mooching!

Sorry but I think the decision of increasing to 3 points the cost for an int'l mooch will kill int'l mooches, especially in many little countries such as the European ones.

I live in Italy: since January posting a single paperback abroad costs me 7 euros ( i.e. 11 US dollars ) to European countries and 10 euros ( 1.e. 14 US dollars ) to the US.
Multiple mooches improves the situation only marginally: 9 euros ( i.e. 13 US dollars ) for European countries and 14 euros ( 1.e. 18 US dollars ) to the US for two paperbacks, perhaps three but only if very slim.
Besides this quantity, fees increase exponentially, such as 30 euros, i.e. 45 US dollars for sending out a little package, with no more than 6-7 paperbacks.

Please compare these rates to the cost of 1.28 euros ( that is 1.70 US dollars ) for posting a paperback nationally.

The extra point earned in int'l trades barely compensates me of the additional postage costs whenI send books abroad, and I have been forced anyway starting from January to accept only multiple mooches, since they're the only ones I can afford.

Should it not be any longer the case, that is, shouldn't the extra point being available any longer, I'll be forced to stop sending books abroad: it will be cheaper for me buy brand new books instead, which is just crazy!! So I'll try to spend my points as fast as I can, and then probably I will switch my account to "only domestic shipments", or perhaps close my account and switch to some other swap system, since BM subscribers in our country are too few and English books available in our country are too rare to make it worthwhile. So the objection, "you can anyway take advantage of points earned in int'l mooches for domestic mooches", in little countries such as ours does not apply. Whatever advertising to BM you can do, subscribers will be very few in absolute figures.

Want to do an exercise John? I have 900+ books in my wishlist. As of today, NONE of them is available in my country.

John and others: what would you do if you were in our shoes? To send a book abroad the rates are at least 5 or 6 times higher than sending books domestically. And I cannot use the 3 points from an int'l mooch in Italy, since nearly nobody here has English books.

So, if you take away the extra point, which was the only advantage left, the only one allowing us to go on mooching internationally, what's the point of mooching for us?

Pity, I had lots of fun with BM in the last two years.

so to prove that the book does not deal in French culture, I think they'd need to do more than open the package -- they'd need to read the book. and perhaps make their 'rule' a little bit clearer as well ;)

at any rate, at my local post office they've asked me a few times if the package contained a book. they've never asked me if the package contained a French book.

You don't have to keep track of which book earned the listing points. For points purposes, all books are the same. A simple check on the inventory size in sufficient.

when listing:
if (#books in inventory) < threshold -> add 0.1 points

when delisting:
if (#books in inventory) <= threshold -> subtract 0.1 points

IMHO, I'd keep the 0.1 point incentive regardless of the inventory size. I understand that the concern is that someone would list a lot of books into bookmooch, use the points to pick up some "valuable" ones, and then abandon the account. A better way to stop this kind of abuse are the mooch ratio limits already in use.

I belong to both PBS and BookMooch. At PBS I'm almost out of points. Although I add to my bookshelf, the number of books requested from me has gone way down, but the number of wishlisted books I've received in the last year or so--many of them books I've been waiting for since I joined PBS in early 2007--has gone way up. So, even though I received an initial three points for joining and also purchased three more points for cash early on, I'm now close to running out of points.

So, as Krugman talks about in his article, I'm currently hoarding those few points I have left. If a book is available in quantity at PBS, I won't request it, assuming that I'll be able to obtain it later if my points total picks up. OTOH, if the book is available here at BookMooch, I'll go ahead and order it because I have an abundance of points. I'll even order books that are of somewhat questionable interest to me because I simply don't, at this point, have to worry about how I'm going to "pay" for it.

The PBS wishlist works on a FIFO system, AND it tells you where you are on the waiting list; for many of my books, I'm getting close or have even reached number 1 in line. But, with so few points, I have to be extremely judicious in which books I request, so I've even been putting some of my wishlist books on hold, which is rather a bummer when I've already been waiting for a long period of time.

The point is that having a lot of points may or may not discourage a member from adding to his or her inventory, but a shortage of points will absolutely keep someone from ordering an available book. In the end, how could it possibly help BookMooch's trading volume to make points scarcer?

Rather than reducing the number of points members can collect, perhaps a more creative solution is required. Failing something really clever, maybe, as at PBS, people could sell their points in these forums. If John doesn't like that idea, how about donating points to a "bank" that members can draw on when their supply of points is low? Perhaps someone can come up with a kind of interest system for borrowers and/or some type of reward for donors.

One thing that I much prefer at PBS (there are other things I prefer at BM) is the FIFO system for the wishlist. Although I've waited a very long time for many of the books I've been getting lately, the fact is that I have some level of confidence that, eventually, I will get the book. If not, I know that it's not because someone else saw an email sooner than I did or because someone else happened to log on just after the book became available but simply because not enough copies of that book are coming into the system to satisfy demand. I realize some people here dislike the FIFO system, but I feel it is much fairer--and I kind of think that it might help some people, at least, "spend" their points.

One thing I'm totally against and really hope that it doesn't happen is raising the points needed to obtain books in high demand. One point for one book (international mooches aside) seems both the fairest way to do it and also the least complicated. Please don't change that.

Maybe you could put a separate classification from "vacation" for those of us who are just not shipping at the moment.

CMN

Maybe we need two Bookmooch frameworks: one for inside the U.S.A., and the other for everywhere else in the world?
An "admission charge" for packages?
They already make incoming air travelers feel as welcome as the bubonic plague; now they want to virtually ban books with too much information? Why stop at 500 grams -- I can see this steadily shrinking to zero. Could this be a plot of the Kindle people? e-books?
Does the U.S. still have a Postmaster General in the Cabinet? or in the closet?

It's no secret. A number of powerful but incompetent businesspeople think a postal system could "make some real money" if it didn't have to deliver to rural addresses, or in fact have to deliver at all. In much the same way that the health care system could make some real money if only healthy people used it. (But why would they do that?)

> An "admission charge" for packages? They already make incoming air travelers feel as welcome as the bubonic plague

Or in fact any air traveller, whether coming in, going out, or intracity. And then they complain people aren't travelling enough!

Mail, people, what's the difference?

>Why stop at 500 grams -- I can see this steadily shrinking to zero.

Naturally. "He wants MORE." "Yeah, that's it!" (_The Wild Bunch_, I think?)

> Could this be a plot of the Kindle people? e-books?

Nah, that's just an excuse.

> I don't think they are alone in their anti-literacy crusade.

Careful folks, look where questioning his wife's literacy got Giles Corey. ("The Crucible" by Arthur Miller)

There used to be a satiric pseudo-scientific magazine called the Journal of Irreproducible Results, which ran an article proving conclusively that the most efficient way to run a hospital was to eliminate the patients.

Honestly, the feature I'm most annoyed with is the reservation of books. Every time I do a quick audit of books in my wishlist I find books available, but reserved for one person, and not opened up to the general population. I get only a small handful of wishlist emails since the reserve books option started.

This is also a major reason why I have over 100 useless points sitting in my account with nothing to spend them on. I can't get rid of my points surplus no matter how hard I try. I've donated 100 points to charity and I still have more than I will ever be able to spend. As a result, I've stopped listing books on BookMooch. Why should I? I will spend money to mail them to someone and then get another point I will never be able to spend. I have boxes and boxes of books that I know will be mooched as quick as I post them but they'll just sit here until I give them away to the library. How many others are in this problem? I can't be the only person.

I wish there were some way to use the points to mooch copies of ebooks. I've started converting some of my library to ebooks in order to conserve space in my tiny apartment and could easily spend all the points buying people's unwanted copies of ebooks. With all the rights issues (especially with Amazon) I don't see this happening any time soon.

I apologize if this came across as harsh, but it's how I feel.

I realized just now about your remark: "a kilo is a lot of books".

Well, sorry to contradict, but one Kg is NOT "a lot of books" at all.

One kilo is:

- 3 standard paperbacks ( 300 pages or so )
- or 1 tradesize format paperback + 1 standard paperback
- or 1 thick paperback ( 500 pages or so, like fantasy books by TOR for instance ) + 1 slim paperback
- or 5/6 extra-slim paperbacks like series romances ( Silhouette and similar ), max. 180-200 pages each.

Just to clarify.

I am with those who say that there really is NO BENEFIT to multiple mailings - silver-thistle's assessment is really accurate.

I do like this site, but it feels in some way like I'm being discouraged from participating.

To me this & any other conditions stipulated by users goes against what Bookmooch stands for & makes the system much more complicated than it should be. Althugh I do understand why these users want moochers to multi-mooch due to how their postal system operates.

I rarely find a user who has more than 1 book that I want to mooch & I don't think I should have to spend points mooching books I don't want just to get 1 I do. I know I can relist the books when I get them but this involves a lot of extra work for no real gain.

If a multi-mooch system is implemented I'm worried that more users will state if you don't mooch x amount you can't have any of my books.

For us "over here" it can be irritating to so often see "not to your country" or "only to my country", as it is most people from USA writing this, but they dont mind trying to mooch books from us "non-USAns".

I had to stop sending international because I just don't have the money. I keep my PBS bookshelf on vacation most of the time and autorequest WL books. I just post WL books as I need pts. Here, I just don't list any books until I need pts. So I've stopped requesting international mooches because I don't send international. The one time I asked, I was told no by the sender because I don't do international. Well I did before my husband left me. But I just can't anymore.

I really think this could help with some of the frustration over book delays.

Not true! We pay domestically for weight and thickness.
A packet of two books up to 500g will measure more than 25mm and so we pay £1.95, an increase of 115% odd!!
If it goes over 501g , easily done with two thicker books, we pay £2.36 (150% odd)and so on...the cost goes up.

As for the recent comment about UK postage, whilst accurate as far as it goes, sometimes packing two books side-by-side rather than one atop the other, will just get under the LL dimension increment, but we also have to be aware that the PO will surcharge if the package gets warmer and the air expands it - I have had this happen with packages the post office officials passed as within the correct dimensions!

To Msright: I will be happy to send you any book(s) you like from my inventory or to "angel" mooch for your from anyone else in Israel.

:-)
Britta