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Messages: Angel Network Discussion
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DID YOU KNOW?

...about the BookMooch Angel Charity Fund?

YOU may be entitled to a point reimbursement.

If you are currently acting as a BookMooch Angel, please allow us to assist you by providing points to help cover your international book shipping cost. Check out our member page by clicking on our name and/or logo on the upper right corner of this message.

Do drop me a line at bmangelnetwork@gmail.com with any questions or concerns. Hope to receive your reimbursement request(s) soon!

Best,
Michelle
BookMooch Angel Network Volunteer

BookMooch Angels Fund
1 year ago
1 comment

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(25 days ago)Please consider submitting your request for a point refund if you have been kind enough to act as a BookMooch angel, by receiving a book from someone in your own country, on behalf of a member of another country (and then sending it to them). I am back at monitoring and fulfilling the requests after a six month hiatus. My apologies to anyone who noticed and questioned this inactivity. Michelle
BookMooch Angels Fund
Angel Charity Fund is now accepting requests for point reimbursement

Visit the charity's bio page for more information.

Michelle

BookMooch Angels Fund
3 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
Angel Network List Page changes

Just to let all Bookmooch angels and supplicants and potential angels know, but I have updated the angel network page so that individual countries, or groups of countries, appear on separate pages to make it easier to scroll through the list to find an angel. Please let the BM Angel Network administrator bmangelnetwork@gmail.com know if you have any changes you want to make to your angel listing. thanks!

http://sites.google.com/site/bmangelnetwork2/home

Cara
3 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
Mooching and angeling while traveling

John said: As to a new kind of angel system, I've also been thinking of a system where a potential angel can indicate "I'll send from here to here" and then they're automatically listed for potential angel mooches. What I want to leverage is people's not-quite-full luggage when they're flying places.

I've done this once before (not flying, but traveling by car to U.S.). I mailed some books to a couple of American mooching buddies as well as a package to a fellow Canadian from Bellingham WA. (a couple of great used book stores there). I am going to Seattle in March for a couple of days. I will be taking the train and my baggage allowance is plenty big enough to take some books, so I'll post a bunch of WL books at the beginning of March. Any books to U.S. or Canadian moochers will go with me to Seattle and get mailed from there. Any books to Europe or Australasia will be mailed from here (when I get back and have checked my credit card bill from my trip!). I have a Canadian mooching friend who frequently crosses the border on business and mails to Americans or fellow Canadians from there. John's idea of indicating a willingness to do this is a nice idea, especially for Americans traveling abroad. It wouldn't make much sense for me to advertise my willingness to angel mooch because any books my fellow Canadians aren't willing to mail internationally they will be even less likely to mail to me out here on the edge of Canada.

I remember when we had the original discussion that lead to the creation of the angel network in the old forum. I hope some ideas are generated in this discussion that lead to some revitalizing of Bookmooch. Given the economy, the rising of both postal rates and mooching rates, I know that mooching will be slowing down or stopping for many Canadians this spring.

Cara
3 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
A Different Kind Of Angel

I have ideas, have them all day long somtimes ;~})
This one in particular is about how we could possibly really improve bookmooch for ourselves and others. Ya know, take things up a notch...and create more happiness all around.

I was looking at the angel requests. I noticed someone wanted a book from Japan...and asked for an angel to help get one in here to the United Kingdom. I had the book on my shelves, and although the mooch was already being "Angel'ed" (YaY) the first thought I had was that maybe I would send it to her from my own shelf.

I am just thinking that maybe we could have A SPOT...a new spot to make a different form of Bookmooch Angel. Maybe this Angel could be an angel who says I'll send it from here, as I was thinking about doing instead of the possibly non-existant angel needing to come forth.
(((Although I'm sure Japanese Angels ARE PaRtiCuLaRLy NiCe!!!)))
(I have many friends from Japan).

And also maybe make a section here in forums, where loans ARE offered. Because my second thought (a few seconds later), was to possibly ask for the book to be returned back. This idea isn't mine alone...the other day in a forum someone mentioned a library form of mooching, and in certain cases, that might actually work well. Perhaps, even if just between trusted friends, maybe only that form. For loaning might have drawbacks when a loan isn't returned in ample time. Expectations would need to be very flexable, even with trusted friends. People are obviously on different time lines.

My idea for the first, is that we pick just one or two favorite books to begin. And ask for them to be given, from for instance the nearest person to us. Shipping could be reduced if we plea for someone close to get us our favorite book we wanna mooch. The one or two we want most of all.

I think we could brainstorm this idea and introduce possible pros and cons, then just open a new thread where we jump in. Of course it would need to be approved by John, he's in full control of his site, at least he deserves the right to be. I will take this post to him (in a link) asking for his imput, right away.

At least it can't hurt to discuss how it might go, what rules these new possible ways of mooching might be and such. Seems it could be very simple but maybe there are things you would bring up that I am not nearly considering that might go wrong?

Anyway I am just throwing it out there...hoping to improve the site a bit for everyone. Maybe we could use the term Alien instead of Angel...as in I need a Bookmooch Alien for my favorite book from childhood...college...high school...or just for _________ by ________.
Maybe Alien is not too original, (the logo), but it could work and separate better the idea from the Angel idea.

The Library one could be called another name....like Trusted Friend...etcetera. Each could have its own page.

What do you think? John? Anyone?

Tikay
3 years ago
13 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(3 years ago)Thank You John for moving this discussion I appreciate that very much! :~})
Tikay
(3 years ago)Thanks for checking in John, I see I have raised some hackles (cute pic lman)... John, I really like your ideas. The place for this discussion was obviously somwhere else and I apologise folks. I make these mistakes at times and usually it comes back to bite me in the okole...hehe I am happy to remove the thread altogether...if that can be done, in the place of moving it. But I bet John can move it to discussions. I have friends who run forums, it can be done. Thanks John, Im off to do a few things. Feel free to do anything you like to remove the thread or move it? I didn't mean it to be here, he is correct...it is a distraction, (and legnthy) to the Angel Requesting.
Tikay
(3 years ago)With no intent to cause any upset AT ALL but with the best of intentions; could you please take this discussion to another part of the forum and leave this for angel REQUESTS and responses only - as intended. I suggest: Angel Network Discussion; especially as that was the original intent the opening poster expressed. It is very easy to copy and paste your comment and then delete your message - just as you can edit it - by clicking on the heading of it. It will not be moved for you - you need to do it. I ask this, in all respect, as such long messages make it very difficult to find the actual requests on devices such as small-screened phones etc. This discussion - which can be happily continued in a more relevant place - is unfortunately overwhelming the space on this thread. Thank you.
Lman
(3 years ago)I really don't like the insinuation that my ideas are bad. I think any of them could improve the site. I am sure you Aude have just misunderstood. Maybe it is the language difference? I am sorry you don't appreciate these ideas but, in thinking on it more, I am NoT exactly ready to toss them...only to see them be formed later because they ARE good ideas. If no one is interested in them that is fine, but I would like to hear more from others. They could work nearly exactly the same a Angel Requests but have another name and forum...it isn't at all complicated OR Prejudice~ I had sent John the wrong link by accident, now he has the proper one...I hope! ;~}) Tikay
Tikay
(3 years ago)I've long thought about two kinds of book flows, which I call: - book circles -- a group of people in the same country want a book. Let's say there's only one copy available on BM (or none, and one person buys it), it is then automatically passed around the circle. You read it, and then you're told who to send it to next. The idea would be a bit like "buying a round" at a pub. Everyone in the circle contributes a hard-to-find book over time. There could be a circle in the USA, and then one in the UK that wants the book, and then one in Finland, etc... - reading groups -- a group of people in the same country all get the same books, reading them together. All the copies are then sent to one person, who ships the whole lot off to the same group in another country. Anyhow, not sure that answers the question, but that's something I've thought about. I don't have any problem with friends "lending" books to each other, but I don't think it's a good graft onto BookMooch, as people expect BM to work a certain way, and exceptions make complications. As to a new kind of angel system, I've also been thinking of a system where a potential angel can indicate "I'll send from here to here" and then they're automatically listed for potential angel mooches. What I want to leverage is people's not-quite-full luggage when they're flying places. -john
John Buckman
(3 years ago)I can see how it might be a problem. Especially when people may think there is some form of prejudice taking place. I think the system works pretty well as is, now that I have been here longer. I will just continue to get my books as I always have when they don't seem to come up in here. There are some amazing people selling books in ebay, in half.com and amazon. Providing me with clean nearly new books for four dollars and less sometimes. I hope everyone knows how to find all the books they love. I only wanted to be helpful, not to make bring up any misunderstandings or aimosity from people who didn't get me. John has not spoken on it as of yet, and though I believe he may be taking a break from the site, I am sure he will eventually come by with an opinion including possible pro's and con's, coming from his experience of running the show here...or we will just keep the status quo.
Tikay
(3 years ago)Serial reading chains is what Bookcrossing does, and Bookmooch is not Bookcrossing. Having said that, I have participated in modified Bookcrossing-type exchanges on Bookmooch. When I have had a book that is hard to find and wishlisted by more than one of my Bookmooch buddies I have emailed one of them and asked if they would like to mooch it under the agreement that they will pass it on to the other person (who is on both our "friends" list) when they have read it. I have also found books that were in failed angel requests and tracked down books on the wishlist of moochers from smaller countries who have trouble getting books mailed to them. Sometimes when a book on my wishlist shows up in an inventory that is "my country only" I will send a recommendation to one of my mooch buddies who also has it wishlisted and ask if I can mooch it from them when they have finished reading it. I could just find an angel, but this way someone else who wants to read the book gets to read it first. There are many different ways to "spread the love". I don't think we need to set up any more formal or even informal systems for these.
Cara
(3 years ago)Maybe I was a little bit confusing since it was a very long day and almost nothing seemed to go well for me yesterday, I cried several times to be honest. Eventually I put it all behind me and came here with what I had been thinking about for bookmooch...thats all. I was hoping just to help people get the books they want into thier grasp a little sooner or just to get them their TOP Most FaVoRiTe Most Wanted Ever books into their cute little paws...when I said there could be another SPOT I meant only forum...which would be here for all living breathing Bookmooch Mooses...ahem. To come adapt, see and use. So exclusivity had nothing to do with any of it. Absolutely not in any manner. If everyone has the capacity to have books angeled...then the same would work for using various other methods to get favorite books, sooner. I would not be suggesting anyone be kept out of an exclusive form of bookmooching, nay never. I am an equal rights nut, honestly, and deplore abuses against anyone on a basis of...well just about anything. The idea may be ridiculous or not. I am sure that your number four idea is far better than what I was implying that we could do...I just want to be helpful. I spend far to much time in thought and not nearly enough meditating. On this note I will go and meditate, then think On what you are basically Thanking Me Very Much for...in earnest, i meant you no disservice dear lady. (edited)
Tikay
(3 years ago)I have angeled books, and had them angeled for me in the past, TYVM. The system that you have in mind is far from clear when reading your explanation of it. Would it be : 1. Some way of substituting failed angeling requests when someone is willing to step in and send instead ? <<-- Would be fine by me, there'd be an element of possibly cherry-picking your recipient(s), but there already is in angeling. Would it require any formal organization ? I don't think so. Just participating on the relevant request threads when they seem to fail to garner the interest of a local angel after a while would do. 2. Some domino swap where a local owner of the book would send their copy to the recipient so they can read it faster, while the book travelling from further afield would eventually replace the one sent ? <<-- No two books are the "same", except maybe same-ISBN mint copies, which isn't the most commonly encountered condition on BM. I see no end to the possible disputes on equivalence of conditions. Beside, most BMers have TBR piles big enough to eat them, delay usually isn't an issue. 3. Some "scratch my back, I scratch your back" specialized exchange ring for super-wishlisted books you're willing to trade only with someone coming up with something of high desireability to you ? Do I really need to explain in just how many ways that could grow ugly and does not need to be given a formal structure ? 4. Some kind of multi-hop angeling book circle, where the book would gradually make its way around the world with more or less scheduled stops in the hands of previously identified BMers in such an order that they could all send to the next one for a cost reasonable to them ? <<-- That could be fun for those who want to participate in it, but with many books I won't know if they're keepers or pass-alongs until I've read them and I suspect many others may think the same. From a practical point of view, the "hard" part when angeling is required usually is getting the book out of country, or sometime (sub-)continent. Once the person who's willing to do that is secured, any extra stops are basically unnecessary though of course they could still be plenty of fun as part of an organized serial reading chain.
Aude
(3 years ago)Wait I think I see what you are saying. Why don't I just list the book...oh...well I would rather keep my book....but when someone asks for it specifically to be Angel requested, I see how much they really want it and my heart melted. That is why I said I was considering the idea. I want it though and saw that it was already covered. Still...I am not going to list all of my own personal library, of unfinished books...if that is what you are suggesting. I want them as well...thus the library idea...to have it back, after loaning it to her, was my second thought before seeing that it was already taken care of here. :~}
Tikay
(3 years ago)I am not sure that you understand that to angel a book for someone is for people to acquire the book from a different country, have it sent to them as a go between and then send it on as an aid for the person who really wants a specific book but would be rejected...Did you know? I see no flaw in the system as it is, I am only suggesting that we increase the peace. Adding other options that are for everyone to use in the same way that everyone can use this system of using an angel to get your book. If you Aude have a favorite book that you can only get from someone in Lithuania who wont send it...why not have a person who can acquire it for you, move it forward until it reaches you? In that same light, (and anyone can use this technique) why not have differing ways of getting our hands onto those books that we crave? There is no big challange to it all in my way of thinking. There would just be another place available here, a forum, where we get more done. Time expended in it would possibly reap our rewards. I am open, yet opposing it as if it is predudicial to anyone else is silly. EVERYONE would be able to do the same actions so who is it that you are saying would be excluded, if that is what you are suggesting? Im kind of confused, it isnt convoluted, it is a very simple idea.
Tikay
(3 years ago)It is my feeling that there'd be something basically flawed in the logic of a system that would rest on people stepping in to offer books in the stead of other books attempted at being angeled. Why didn't they just *list* the book so there was a possibly closer, and extra source, set on "ask first" or "worldwide" which may have obviated the need for an angel request in the first place ? Is the person asking on the angel forum somehow felt as more trustworthy, deserving or endearing than the one who just happens to have the book wishlisted (beyond the indeniable fact that their history can be checked & the angels can choose who to interact with) ? What seems to be asked, basically, would be the creation of a system to facilitate controlled mooching for those people who have books they'll be putting up on BM someday and know they're wishlisted. While there may be situations where weight & postage considerations may make such picking of a recipient reasonable I'm not sure making it more formalized would be needed or a good idea. And if created, if it really needs to be tied in any way to the angel system. Those who want to do that can already take their upcoming books, see by whom & where they're wishlisted, then approach the person(s) about possibly posting the item(s) reserved for them. Or participate in some other forum(s) where it's customary to offer first dibs on one's upcoming books before letting them fly to the general BM population.
Aude
(3 years ago)I thought that I was opening a new thread...haha...oh well, maybe this will be moved?
Tikay
this angel needs some advice

I just had an e-mail from one of our bookmoochers in Spain, she wants to launch a campaign in Spain for bookmooch via her website and asked me to angelmooch a box of 500 bookmooch bookmarks for her to send out/give away to promote Bookmooch.com The only person who actually posted a box of 500 bookmarks to mooch is inactive. soooo. HOW CAN WE HELP HER OUT?? If I mooch a bunch of bookmarks that are set up in batches of 10, it defeats the purpose of sending a few to people who casually hand them out. Any thoughts on this??

Glenda Hamilton
4 years ago
6 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(3 years ago)I've got some moochmarks and will be listing packages of them over the next few days. I will be posting the equivalent weight of an average book, so definitely more than 50.
brownbear
(4 years ago)It would be really useful if there was a Last Updated field for the Status notes.
Lola Soleil
(4 years ago)Thanks, Mark, I guess I over-reacted. I tend to take status statements at face value. I have made the request. I really want to help out any bookmoocher abroad who wants to expand bookmooch participation in his or her own country.
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)That's an old status message Glenda, you can go ahead and mooch as per the blog post
mark
(4 years ago)and the status says he will be away until January. ??? any other options for our friend in Spain?
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)this is why I am confused. that website shows the bookmooch person as incactive for the last 180+ days. Should I go ahead and ask?
Glenda Hamilton
Virtual Angels?

As the costs of mailing keep increasing, I am suggesting a variation of Angel Mooching which depends on the original book owner's co-operation.

The Angel sends the extra postage, customs labels etc to the person whose book is being mooched, along with the name and address of the final recipient, and the owner posts it direct to them. You leave your own address in the "Send to" field, so they get 'own country' points.

Of course you need to know the parcel weight to work out the postage to the recipient, and also what it would have cost for the postage to you, (you then pay the difference, or if you feel it's fairer maybe a little more because you will receive extra points - but don't forget to allow for the cost of sending the postage/ labels etc in your own country) and you need to be able to reconcile the book received reports.

How do you all feel about this? I've tried it once, and it all worked out well, but would like some feedback on the idea.

lin chiswell
3 years ago
3 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(3 years ago)Had an angeling done this way thanks to you and it worked great. But I wonder about the extra possible problems. If the books get lost or actually never sent, or arrive in a state that is gross or otherwise blatantly untrue to listed condtions, the burden of the ensuing feedback falls on the angel. Even if it's not particularly nasty because the recipient knows someone else or a postal hiccup are probably to blame, non-positive ratings and lost books don't look too good.
Aude
(3 years ago)Yes Karen, this is what I mean! Thanks for your comments. I do keep a supply of UK stamps (which you can order online) because I live in Channel Islands, and we have different postal authorities here, so I try to send 'overseas' from England when my OH is passing through, as we don't have any Printed Paper rates. It does seem a bit complicated, but I just thought it might be of interest to anyone who can be bothered; obviously it's up to the individual to do whatever they find easiest!
lin chiswell
(3 years ago)This only works in within your own country. Of course when the first sender is abroad you can "pay" for the postage costs via another source but I find it complicated.
Zjanette
Know HTML? The BM Angels need your help!

Hi there,
We need at least one additional volunteer to help us amend the master BookMooch angel list, as requests are received from bmangelnetwork@gmail.com.

If you know HTML and are an experienced user, as well as a BM member with a solid BookMooching history, please e-mail me. You will need to be able to commit to adding or removing up to a dozen member names once per month, either on the first or the fifteenth of each and every month, alternating with another volunteer.

Thanks so much.

michelle
3 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
Book Condition and Angel Mooches

Every so often I receive a book that I'm angeling for someone and its condition is poorer than I was led to expect. What do you do? So far, I've contacted the moocher and given them detailed condition notes and given them the option of not mooching if the copy is not what they want. So far, both moochers went ahead and mooched the books in question, but has this ever been a problem for someone?

RidgewayGirl
3 years ago
1 comment

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(3 years ago)I would rather not send a book as an angel request oversea if they won't appreciated it in the end. Both the mooching and then the sending cost money. I re-list it in its condition and then swallow the point. Angeling is done because it is appreciated, and nice to be appreciated. The only other reason I could think to do it, is to get your give/mooched ratio down. I do it for the appreciation and in case I ever need one myself. Like I said, if they aren't going to appreciate it, it is not their fault the lister didn't mark the condition well. What do you do when you receive a book in worse condition than you would like? I have stated it in feedback, and then swallowed the point, I haven't given negative yet just comments. Same difference if you are an Angel except you're the middle man. I guess if they were really nice they would give you the point back, maybe some would if you asked. I'd never ask.
Amy W
How do other angels keep track of their angel-mooches?

I recently angel mooched a book only to realize that the P.I.N. was not written down here and using all ideas offered I cannot track her down. My record keeping system seems to need some fine tuning. So how do other angels keep track of who they mooch for and what they mooch, and the status (pending, arrived, resent,etc.)

Glenda Hamilton
4 years ago
12 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(3 years ago)I finally started keeping a small excel spreadsheet with all the necessary info. And I recently started using gmail, where the search function is so strong that if I find myself with a book I had not entered into my spreadsheet, I can just search for the book's title and the original angel request will pop up.
Melinda 
(3 years ago)I'm sure that works for you MacsBrains, but I would have to continually look at the "code" to remember it. Right now, my answer is to limit my angel mooching to a manageable size. And I have started noting on the book requests [angel mooch for xx (country)] The only downside of that is I get a LOT of questions back from the person I'm requesting the book from "What is an angel mooch" So I have been sort of advertising the angel mooch network at the same time... lol FYI I give them the short version of what we do, and then add the "angelmooch" wiki link.
Glenda Hamilton
(3 years ago)I also use the square brackets in the mooch comments method, but I also put a list at the bottom of my bio so the people I'm angeling for can see what's in process for them, and what the status is. (I also copy an LT comment to myself with that info when I'm angeling for more than one person so they can check there too. I do most of my angeling through LT.) It looks like this: ---------Angel Mooches---------- P = Pending; A = Accepted; D = Delayed; C = Canceled M = Sender Mailed; R = Received; S = Sent For Person's BM ID (Country): P - Book 1 M - Book 2 For Person 2 (Country): C - Book 1 A - Book 2 M - Book 3 For Person 3 (Country) Date S - 6 Books
MacsBrains
(4 years ago)Yes Karen! It could & probably would. I hadn't thought of that. I thought that idea up when reserves were able to be 'never expire'. I'll have to think up something more now. Thanks for bringing that up.
Michelle
(4 years ago)Hi Glenda. Don't be too hard on yourself. When I angel, I list the book immediately in my inventory & reserve for the P.I.N. They can mooch it then or just wait till I've really received it, at which time I'll send a recommendation/reminder that it's here ready for them mooch. That's my way of answering myself with all the Who, What?, When? & How? questions. HTH
Michelle
(4 years ago)I get the forum posts by email. I save the original email and, since I'm on gmail, I can just search the title when the book arrives and up pops the email from the requester.
Nicholas
(4 years ago)thank you all for some good ideas. I think, like Lyn, I need to KISS ("keep it simple, sweetie") so Putting the name of the PIN in the request is a great idea and will keep me from losing track of who the book is for. I may continue to keep the book log, but I already immediately post the book for the person I'm angel mooching for, as soon as I mark the book received, unless the requestor wants me to hold for a batch, which I will later post all at once. I already have an Excel spread sheet that lists all my TBR with another tab that has all the books I own, and a third with all the books I plan to put into my inventory if ever I need to add more to it. So easy to transfer a book after I read it to the approprite excel data base.( and that alone is a total of more than 750 books) Although I am not always as careful with the angel mooches as I should be, I know where absolutely every book I own is located... that's already a plut.
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)I keep a small Excel spreadsheet. I have a page for Angel mooches, a page for my own mooches, & a page for books I've sent. It helps me keep track of things! But whatever works for you is what you should use. :-)
Gail
(4 years ago)Glenda, I simply write in the comment of each mooch (in a square bracket) after my thank you comment, the BM id of the member I am mooching for. That way, when the book arrives I copy and paste that id into the reservation, and notification form. QED. I usually take the small amount of time to look up the actual BM id that is needed for these, before I mooch the book, so it becomes really easy to know "who' when the book arrives...but if you were worried about the time taken to do this, you could just use their BM name and look up their id from that when you are ready to re-list. In my humble opinion, I need to make this process as simple as possible and I want to have as little hassle as I can - so I open another tab when marking the book received and then I add it immediately into my inventory while I still have all the information I need to list the book for the intended recipient; once I have added the book, reserved it for the member and sent them a notification; only then do I refresh my pending page. I have seen lots of members write "angel mooch for ..." in the comments but I don't even bother with the angel mooch bit. For example - if I was angel-mooching for you I would write 'for glendaham'. I don't want extra lists (my pending page is long enough) and I don't want to use other sites (LT and BM are enough of a time sink) and I want to make sure I get the right book to the right member; senior moments I totally understand! I suffer them too! :) And I have only had one member query my extra comment...ever. And then they sent the book promptly after I explained. Lastly, please don't fret about this 'missing' member angel-mooch; Book Karma will sort it. You are such a fantastic member of this site and such a lovely kind person, always trying to help others. We all understand. And if this member gets upset, remember; you are trying to help, and we are all gloriously human! :) If we become brain-limited as we get older, well, it will happen to all of us. With the number of angel-mooches you do, then it is hardly surprising one may go awry... Hugs and hugs ~ Lyn
Lman
(4 years ago)There is also an online version of Book Collectorz which can be used from any computer with a browser. I haven't used it much, but it seems a lot of the same functionality as the standalone program. I think there is a 30 day free trial period....
Peter Schroeder
(4 years ago)I'll check out the site. The problem with keeping the info in a notebook, with one page for each person I'm mooching for, is that I am a computer junkie (three in three separate rooms) and the notebook is never at the right terminal when I need to make an entry. So your solution sounds pretty good.
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)I suppose you could keep track in a text file or document, but that could be rather burdensome to use (for someone lazy like myself). I use Book Collectorz Pro and assign my own meanings to some of the entries (for example, I use the subtitle to note the name of the person I'm angeling for and their country, as a check). I also use the "On Order", "In Collection" and "Wanted" status flags to indicate that a book is in transit to me, I have the book in hand, or that I have sent the book. Once I get confirmation the book was received, I change the status to "Not in Collection". I use some other fields, like "Purchase Date" for the date I send the book, etc. It was worth the (small) investment to me as it does just about what I need and I can use it for my own (large) private collection of books, too.
Peter Schroeder
My apologies....

...to all of those members waiting to be added to the "official" angel list. I'm embarrassed to say that I am behind in submitting your requests as they have come in from the gmail account, and I hope to remedy the situation this week. I'm sorry if you've felt ignored :(

Michelle

P.S. I've also posted this on the "Angel Requests" thread, so that every angel and potential angel will see it :)

michelle
4 years ago
2 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)That's a great idea, Mark. Thanks for always being so helpful and supportive :)
michelle
(4 years ago)No worries Michelle, The Angel project is sure to grow with the added exposure of the new forum, if you need any new helpers just post here and I'm sure you'll get as many as you need :)
mark
Random Acts of Kindness

The recent debate on the angel process has elicited some marvellous responses from angels who are far more eloquent than I could ever hope to be in defending the existing system. But it has made me rethink the process, much like one ponders over some books long after the last page has been turned. I have seen in the forums for angel requests and book searches more than just "angel" responses. Readers offer to go to local used book stores to find a book for someone (not just in another country but also for those in small towns with few resources); a moocher who collects mystery books for an elderly relative, who in turn donates her books to her Senior Center to be shared by many. People request books for home schooling, small town and church libraries; grandmothers mooch books for grandchildren who are too young (yet) to have their own accounts and the variety of mooches for others goes on and on. Let's not lose the sight of a very important aspect of Bookmooch and angeling: simply putting books into the hands of people who want them and getting the books we want! The concept of Angel-mooching is far more than "foreign exchange." It can be domestic too.

Glenda Hamilton
4 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
Angel network

I don't meant to be a complainer and I think the new forums are a great idea to make the angel request process easier but in some respects I don't think it is a fair system. I have signed up to be an "angel" but so far my name has not been added to the list (over a month ago) and every time I log on to the angel forum I am unable to help anyone as there seems to be a few "angels" in my country who are perpetually on the forums and snap up any angel requests almost immediately. Therefore they keep accruing more points than they could ever use and I am getting nowhere with mine.

Hmm maybe I should just do it the old-fashioned way and add a few more books to my inventory! :p

But seriously - should there be a limit to how many angel requests any one member can provide? I think so. At least the old system of checking the list for a prospective angel was fairer in that the moocher could choose who they wanted to mooch their book for them - therefore they could also choose the method of delivery (ie: surface mail due to airmail).

Just my thoughts.

Tammie
4 years ago
11 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)Glenda, Please don't back off. As someone who has needed the services of an angel on more than one occasion I can tell you that in many cases the faster the better! If it is a highly wishlisted book if an angel doesn't move on it quickly the book will be mooched. Tammie, have you posted a message on the Angel request forum announcing your enthusiastic willingness to be an angel? Perhaps someone will see your notice and take you up on your offer.
Cara
(4 years ago)Glenda, I guess there has to be a happy medium to angel-ing--but if I saw a request that was a few hours old and no one had yet responded, I'd jump on it too, for fear the book would be gone otherwise.
Maureen 
(4 years ago)Geez, now I'm looking at 'angel mooching' in a new way. I saw someone in UK requesting books today from the US and nobody responded for about two hours, so I made the requests. And then I felt guilty because I'm depriving some other worthy "angel" from responding. Although I'm not in competition with you, Tammie, perhaps there are US angels who are just as disgruntled but not as vocal as you. Never thought I'd feel guilty about angeling, but maybe I have been a little too eager. Time to take a deep breath and back off.
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)Although I know I'm not in your country (therefore not "competing" for requests with you), I am one of those people that obsessively watches the angel forum. Part of it is wanting to help when I have points available and I also like to see what people are requesting to add to my wishlist if I'm interested. I have a job where I can sit on my computer a lot and I find it thrilling to help people when I can. I know speed is important, particularly for angeling, so I try to help out when I see something from the US.
Lisa
(4 years ago)Tammie, have you signed up to get the angel mooch forum via email? I think that makes it easier for many people to respond to angel requests, since they see them fairly soon after they're posted, without needing to log on to the forum. But never fear--there will come a time when someone will post a request and no one responds, and you'll get your chance. And now that I've figured out what country you're from, I'll keep you in mind for any requests I have. :)
Maureen 
(4 years ago)Thanks everyone for their input. My faith in "angeling" is restored and I know most members become angels out of an altruistic desire to help others but my post was directed more at those who angel mooch so much you have to wonder what their motives are. But maybe I'm wrong Glenda and there are many more people who sit on the forums all day as a hobby. Fair enough. Also thanks for the tips but being a member for 4 years I am well aware of how it all works. I'm not just a whining newbie, this has been a genuine frustration for me ever since the new forums have been up! Thank you Jon for your thoughts too - maybe I will just have to sit tight and wait for my name to be added to the list!
Tammie
(4 years ago)Tammie, I am probably one of those "greedy" angels you are talking about, but I never thought that maybe I might be depriving other potential "angels" of doing their thing. I check the "angel needed" forums both on BM and LT regularly and when I see an angel request go unfullfilled for a period of time, my first thought is, "that person is going to miss out on the book" (especially if it is a popular one). If you want to "angel" you can't just put your name on a list and sit back and wait for the calling. Set up the angel request thread to go to your e-mail. Check the forums a couple times a day and certainly join several forums, read the ones about searching for a book, not just the angel requests. Develop relationships with people who regularly request angels. It may seem like a slow start, but as moochers get to know you, they requests will come in. BTW there are no "free" points involved in angeling. My postage costs some months reach the astronomical level!!! Add in the time used in communication, trips to the post office, the customs forms, special packaging and - in my case - managing complex lists of mooches for them and for me, and it really adds up. But then, I'm old and this is my hobby -- more fun than sitting around the senior citizen center talking about my arthrits!!!
Glenda Hamilton
(4 years ago)Thanks for making those clarifications, Donna. You saved me a lot of typing. :-) I have one more thing to add. I have used angels both by emailing them directly and by posting my request in the forum (the old forum). I've had more success emailing angels directly. My suspicion is that when I posted my requests in the forum it advertised the books so that people mooched the books for themselves before an angel responded. Emailing an angel adds a delay during which books can get mooched. I've found with both methods -- forum and email -- the timing of when you need the angel is important. If it's in the early morning hours in the country where the book is, for example, you're less likely to get an angel by email or by the forum in time. I hope your name gets added soon. Once that's done I think the system will be as efficient and fair as it can be. Restricting angel mooches would be less efficient and I think the purpose of getting books into the hands of moochers should take priority over evenly distributing mooches among angels. Jon
Jon Maloney
(4 years ago)While I understand your frustration with not being able to help people with Angel mooching, there are a few things that I do need to point out. People have always been able to request Angels via the forums where anyone who sees it could respond to the request whether an "offical" Angel or not. The new forum is just more widely used than the old one was, and more visible, but people have always been able to post requests this way. There is also a thread on Library Thing where people also post their requests. But not everyone uses the forums and there are people who only make their Angel Requests via the listings of Angels and will probably continue to do so. I have received many requests this way, even since the new forums have been started. The Angel List (like everything else on Bookmooch) is maintained by volunteers. Sometimes it can take them a while to get around to making the updates, but they will get to it. Just have a little patience and your name will be added. As for getting more points, Angel Mooching is not the best way to increase your points. It actually costs more on a per point basis to send an Angel Mooch than to send a regular international mooch. You only net 2.2 points per Angel Mooch vs. 3.1 points for a regular international mooch (Angel Mooch: -1 for initial mooch, +.1 for marking received, +.1 for listing +3 for sending = 2.2 Regular international mooch +.1 for listing +3 for sending = 3.1). So my advice if you really want to be a Bookmooch Angel is to keep checking the forum for those needing Angels, maybe send another request to have your name added to the list, and eventually things will work out.
Donna
(4 years ago)Thanks Karen, you do have a point there about needing to be quick in order to grab a book for someone. I don't mean to point the finger at anyone but the fact is that there is an exchange of points involved - and the angel earns one "free" point for every book they mooch for someone. I just think there should be a fairer way for every potential angel to help someone and yes, also earn a free point if they want to, after all that is the incentive for sending overseas at a higher cost. In that way I thought the old system of having a list of angels was fairer to all but I guess you're right in that it was a slower process. I just don't think there should be an angel "monopoly" as there appears to be now on the angel forum.
Tammie
(4 years ago)Sorry I meant surface mail OR airmail.
Tammie
automatic matching up of angels?

Here is an idea for automated angel-finding:

1) people could mark in the BM profile that they're will to be an angel for books in their country (and perhaps "to these countries...")

2) when you want to mooch a book but need an angel to do it, you could chose to "request an angel mooch"

3) a page would come up saying "To mooch this book for you in South Africa, the following people might be willing to be angels for your mooch:...."

4) you'd then have an "send a angel mooch request" email sent on your behalf.

The idea is that this would be very much like the "ask first" process for mooching books, in that it's mostly automated.

-john

John Buckman
4 years ago
15 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)Lman, Thank you so much. Sending the email right after I post this. Smooches to you figuratively :)
JDV
(4 years ago)Yes, all forums now work this way.
John Buckman
(4 years ago)That is so much easier to read. Are you going to use the same format for all the forums?
Nicholas
(4 years ago)Based on all the feedback, I think it'd be best to _not_ change the way angel mooching works. Today, I released a new version of the forum software, which makes it much easier to see what angel requests there are and whether the request has been fulfilled -- now that comments are displayed directly underneath each request in the Angel Requests forum. Hopefully, you guys will like the change!
John Buckman
(4 years ago)I'm not really sure that I like the idea of a matching service...as a frequent angel requester, I really enjoy the searching out, finding and corresponding with those angels that have come to my rescue. Being a recently be-winged angel myself, I much prefer being asked directly than reading about someone's wants on the forum (though I might be somewhat hypocritical with this statement in that I just recently used the forum to find an angel...don't be mad at me Melinda, I didn't want to impose on you again so soon). Even so, I will gladly help someone in need of an angel in Japan, and have used the forum to do that as well. Is it as fun as being asked directly...no...but it is still nice to know that I've helped someone get a book that they've been pining for.
Rebel Sun
(4 years ago)Not an idiot at all JDV... Here is the link for the wiki page about the BookMooch_Angel_Network. To put your name on the list all you need to do is send an email to the volunteer coordinator at this email address: bmangelnetwork@gmail.com stating your BookMooch name and id, and that you would like to be an 'angel' and in a little while you will be added to this list. There is also a thread on this forum titled What is an angel and how do I find one? What is an angel and how do I find one - written by Cindy, one of us (volunteers) from all over the world that help Michelle (coordinator) out with this list at times. Easy! :) ~Lyn (Lman)
Lman
(4 years ago)Need help here on the "Angel" status. I've done one and would like to do more but I didn't and still don't know how to even be on the "Angel" list, if there is one :) Not trying to be difficult just trying to help and that said I agree with Lman. Sorry that I'm such and idiot that can't find out on my own how to be an "Angel" but I need help. . .to help. LOL, pathetic I know but true.
JDV
(4 years ago)I think both ideas - a forum and a direct link - are good ideas. If you can opt in and out of the automated 'angel-finding" I think that may solve the problem of too many requests at one time - if suddenly you are inundated you can take yourself out until you are ready to take on requests again. Would this be possible? And the forum is good for those who want to throw it out there for anyone to pick and choose. I can't see any negativity with having both... the more the network gets used, the better the mooching will be, IMHO! Nominating which countries "able to send to" would be also very helpful, as I have noticed that is a bug-bear for lots of members. Being able to add certain conditions would be good too - as in I cannot send books over 500g to SE Asia from Australia due to postage costs and no sea mail option to those countries etc, etc.
Lman
(4 years ago)Right now there are actually two different ways for people to request an Angel, via the various forums, or via direct e-mail using the Angel List. What is being proposed would not prevent the first method, people could still post their requests in the forums if they wanted, but it would make the second method easier. I have done a lot of Angel Mooching and almost all of the requests have been received via e-mail. I very rarely respond to requests posted in the various forums. Not everyone follows the forum and I'm sure there are also people who are unfamiliar with the Angel Network. Making it automated might increase awareness. And from what John is proposing, if you didn't want to receive Angel Request e-mails, you don't have to. Anyone can respond to an Angel Request on the forums, whether they are listed as an "official" Angel or not. And I am sure there would still be a lot of people going this route. Overall, I like the idea that John has proposed.
Donna
(4 years ago)I agree with Melinda. As an Angel I will not look for people who need my help. I read the messages on the new forum and will respond if I see someone I can help. But that's as far as I will go. Zjanette bio:zjanette
Zjanette
(4 years ago)I do not agree with RidgewayGirl. As an angel who has done an awful lot of angel-mooching, one of the things I like best about it is the communication established with the person who wanted the book, and if they're asking me for a favor, well, so be it--I can deal with saying yes or no at any given time. I personally will not be trolling the lists of people in need of help--I will always wait to be asked, even if the request were to be sent "automatically" as John had suggested.
Melinda 
(4 years ago)I agree with RidgewayGirl. But perhaps clicking the button could put a post in the angels wanted forum instead of an email to an angel on the list. I think that would be win-win. The angels still get to choose and the moocher would be more likely to get a timely response from the forum if it's one of the more active mooching countries, and if the book is in a less active country the book probably won't disappear before they can email someone on the regular angel list. Could something like that work?
MacsBrains
(4 years ago)I like the current system, which has people posting requests that are then claimed by an angel. This means that the angels get a bit of control over how many books they're mooching at one time. With the current system, as it works on the forum (and previously back on LibraryThing), an angel can take on as many or as few angel mooches as time and finances allow. With it built in to each request, it would go to an email request system which could cause the following issues: --an angel would feel pressured to take on more than they could comfortably take on because they were asked directly, --not all angels check their email several times a day and the chance to mooch could disappear because they didn't get the email until too late, --the email could get stuck in a spam filter, which seems to happen randomly to everyone, and finally --the added step of having to request an angel makes the moocher aware that something is being done for them (while this may also discourage some who don't want to make a fuss).
RidgewayGirl
(4 years ago)That would be very helpful, and we've had gmail requesting that something like this be done!
michelle
(4 years ago)As an angel, I think it's a great idea!
Melinda 
Lyn's ideas for Angeling

 what I would like to do is archive MY requests, or 'hold' my requests somewhere, because I need to keep a record like Cindy mentioned.

I've been thinking of an all-purpose "notes" field on each mooch so that you could indicate that a particular mooch is an angel mooch, and who it is going to.

 What I'd REALLY like, and then I wouldn't have to worry about an archive, is a way to signify on the angel-mooch request that it is an angel request and who it is I have requested it when I have mooch the book. For example, I have 10 angel requests in various stages of pending as I write this - and the only way I can keep track is to put the member's BM ID in the comment section of the mooch plus making sure, beforehand,I have the correct ID for the member - as it may be different from their user name. And all this while trying ot sang the book ASAP in case it goes - as we do. :)

Perhaps your mooch notes could have a feature where various indicative words serve as tags. For example, putting the word *ANGEL* in your notes could put an angel icon on the notes, making it stand out. Mooch notes would be editable by you at any time, not just at mooch time, so you could put any tracking information for the state of that mooch.

 If I could add a hyper-link to the mooch requester's BM id (any sort of link I can use once I receive the book that will take me to who requested me to angel it), maybe with a little 'angel' icon - like the smiley face - WHEN I mooch the book, and I don't know how difficult that is - but you asked for suggestions, *smiles sweetly at John* - that is what I'd like to help me with angel requests.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines.

Also, I've been meaning to break the "pending" page up into separate pages for each state of your mooches (books you've sent, books you're waiting for, etc...) as that pending page gets darned long sometimes. A section for "Angel mooches" would be useful in that case, and would keep them separate from your regular mooching.

 So:
perhaps a tick box with each mooch:yes this is an angel request
then, if ticked a dialogue box (similar to the recommend pathway) in which to write the user's BM id or e3ven a link to their BM name
this is then placed into the mooch details, with or without icon.

I like this idea. Perhaps after you click the "this is an angel mooch" and do the mooch, the next page asks you a few questions, such as "who is this angel mooch for?".

Ideally, the system could send you an angel mooch request from the original requester, and pre-fill this stuff out, so you need only click the "do this angel mooch" link in an email and bang! it goes out.

-john

John Buckman
4 years ago
7 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)Ideally, the system could send you an angel mooch request from the original requester, and pre-fill this stuff out, so you need only click the "do this angel mooch" link in an email and bang! it goes out. I don't know how hard this would be - but this option would be perfect! :) ~ L.
Lman
(4 years ago)Oooh - just found this! I love the idea of breaking up the pending pages into relevant sections and adding one for 'angel' mooches. Which means we will be able to 'mark' as such I am guessing here? Perhaps after you click the "this is an angel mooch" and do the mooch, the next page asks you a few questions, such as "who is this angel mooch for?". This would be fantastic and if it is editable - allow time to sort the necessary links after snagging the book; or fix any mistakes I frequently make when typing. :) And mooch notes for all books (so I could add when I had sent an email to the member about it after receiving no reply, for example) would be most useful. Thanks for listening John! ~ Lyn
Lman
(4 years ago)I love the idea of having a separate pending tab for Angel Mooches. Even just a notes field would be super helpful. I currently keep a separate file with a listing of my Angel Mooches, but sometimes I don't get around to updating it, and then I have to go back through all the e-mails I have to find out who a particular book was for. Having the information appear on Bookmooch itself would be tremendously helpful, especially when you have multiple mooches for different people. Thanks for all the hard work John, it is appreciated.
Donna
(4 years ago)Thank you Lyn and John for the wonderful ideas. Even just having a "notes" field would be helpful in the short term. I appreciate the thought that has gone into making these FANTASTIC suggestions :)
michelle
(4 years ago)It would also be helpful if the angel pending page could include a way for the requestor to keep track of requests to angels. I know I have a few requests to angels "out there" at the moment, and it is almost harder to keep track of those than on the ones where I am the angel. At least when I am the angel there is often an email request or a request on the LT angel thread to which I can refer. When I obtain an angel through emailing someone on the list there is no record for myself since BM emails are not copied to the sender.
Cindy
(4 years ago)These are wonderful ideas. I love the idea of an Angel pending tab, and that it could be filled out after the mooch request has been sent. As Lyn mentioned, time is of the essence on highly wishlisted books and I am always reluctant to spend too long filling in notes for myself in the comment section. In addition, that section is primarily used to communicate with the book owner and it seems best to separate those comments from notes to self.
Cindy
(4 years ago)I like that separate Angel pending tab. At the moment, I keep emails pertaining to books I'm being an Angel for until the transaction is complete. Having the information with the mooch info would be great.
Nicholas
Any Americans able to be angels for me?

Not quite sure how this woks so feel fre to set me straight.
There are a few books on my wihslist that I'd love to mooch, but that are owned by American moochers who don't send worldwide (and I don't blame them since they lost surface mail.
Anyone able to help?

Suedo
4 years ago
3 comments

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)I would suggest that you take your specific requests over to the Angels Needed...thread. It looks like people are already finding angels quickly over there.
RidgewayGirl
(4 years ago)I would love the opportunity to mooch a book from the US from a seller who doesn't post out of the US, have the mooch sent to an angel who would then forward to me. I would be happy to give points to the book donor and to the angel, cos there is nothing more frustrating than reading a series and not being able to get the last (or sequel books)outside the US.
chrissie
(4 years ago)You can count on me too. I shipworldwide.
Glenda Hamilton
What is an angel and how do I find one?

I'm sure that some people are wondering what exactly a Bookmooch Angel is. Basically, the angel network is an informal program which helps members mooch books from members in other countries who do not ship internationally. For instance, I live in the US. If I find a book that I want to mooch that is listed by a Canadian who only ships to members in her own country, then I can request the services of a Canadian angel. That person would request the book for me; since it is a domestic mooch the book owner would be willing to send it to them. When the angel receives the book they then list the book in their inventory, reserving it for me. I mooch the book from them. The angel receives a two-point profit for the book (three points for sending internationally minus the one it cost them to mooch the book in the first place), and I receive the book for the same two points it would cost me for any international book. A more complete explanation is available here BookMooch_Angel_Network.

There are two ways to find an angel for a book. The first is to post a request in the thread at this forum. Anyone who is interested in helping out is free to jump in and serve as an angel for any request. There is no official authorization procedure to become an angel. The second is to go to this page http://sites.google.com/site/bmangelnetwork2/home to find a list of people by country who have already volunteered to serve as angels. Please note any requirements or restrictions people have listed and abide by them.

The angel system is a great way to facilitate international trades even though some members only send within their country. I have also found it a way to form some wonderful personal friendships with other bookmoochers around the world.

Cindy
4 years ago
1 comment

Recent comments:[write a comment]
(4 years ago)Also, if you're low on points and able to send internationally, being an angel can be an excellent way to add a few points here and there. And there's the enormous satisfaction of seeing a book go to where it's really wanted, often a place were the book would be unavailable otherwise.
RidgewayGirl
Australian Angel

Hi there, if anyone needs an angel to mooch a book for you from Australia I have just signed up! All mooches accepted, my only condition is that I may have to send by seamail (surface mail) for heavy books or multiple mooches (but if you really need the book quickly just ask!).
You can find my email link here:
bio:tam

Thanks! Tammie

Tammie
4 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
Changing the scope of this Forum

We've managed to duplicate the "angel request" forums but since this one has fewer requests, maybe it could evolve into the Angel Network Discussion Forum which John suggested in the other Angel Request Forum.

He posted that he'd like to see an angel discussion thread to deal with:
"Lots of things:
- what should be on the mooch angels web site
- how should new angels be recruited & helped
- problems with angeling
- working/discussing with me about how angeling could/should work with BM

For example, there have been some features I've added in the past that have made angeling easier, and some that have made it harder, but I had no real way to hear about it.

Basically, mooch angels represent (along with the bm journals) a wonderful new use of my project (bookmooch) as well as representing a core personal value of mine (international exchange) and I'd like to do what I can to promote that use and cause."

Jenni Canuck
4 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]
UK Angel willing to send abroad if you don't mind surface mail

So I'm in the UK and willing to send abroad but only surface mail, so if you don't mind it being slow, I'm your gal

Suedo
4 years ago
no comments

[write a comment]