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America is NOT US
I don't know if it's just me, but I'm Canadian and it annoys me a bit that the US is cited as "America" all around BookMooch... America is a full continent including South, Central and North America, so technically, Canadians, Mexicans, even Brazilians can all call themselves Americans. I do understand that we refer to the residents of the US of A as Americans, but at least can we call the country "US" or "USA" ? It really feels strange receiving an e-mail asking me if I agree to send a book to a foreign "country" that is actually the continent I live in ! Just wondered if I was the only weird one out there who thinks it sounds a bit wrong...
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Sébastien
10 years ago
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>It really feels strange receiving an e-mail asking me if I agree to send a book to a foreign "country" that is actually the continent I live in ! I don't quite know what's strange about that - the postal service cares more about "inside one country" and "outside" (years ago, my postal service had Europe, World 1 and World 2 with different rates, according to distance, but now everything not in my country is simply International. As European, there are dozens of countries on my continent, but the difference between them is 1 or 3 Euros. (Plus often a different language...) And "America" is not just the geographical name for the continent. It's also established in common (layman's) language as shorthand for "people living in the USA". Yes, it is annoying that Americans tend to act as if their way is standard for everything and outside doesn't exist. But no matter how much others gripe, it's unlikely to displace the established common usage.
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nonameblue, I understand what you mean and I also agree that it's commonly accepted for "people" living in the US, but not to designate the country itself. Imagine if any country in Europe, feeling superior to any other (I believe France, Germany and England could get to that conclusion...) decided to call their own country "Europe", wouldn't people from all other European countries feel upset about it ? The situation seen from the postal service is also peculiar considering it costs more to send something 350 km away (upstate New York) than 3500 km away (Vancouver), only because one falls outside the national postal company's jurisdiction. Anyway I was just suggesting the Bookmooch website could adjust the denomination of USA in their communication. And ask other users how they feel about it. Thanks for the explanation of how it works on your side of the Atlantic !
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@Sebastian, Stop being such a pain. Within continents there are countries. Within countries there are postal services. Within those continents and countries and postal services there are rules. Live with them or get out. Leave BookMooch if you aren't happy and let the rest of us alone to trade in peace. Willow
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@nonameblue Your comment "Yes, it is annoying that Americans tend to act as if their way is standard for everything and outside doesn't exist." is insulting. Painting a broad brush is foolish. Back up your statement that "Americans tend to act as if their way is standard for everything and outside doesn't exist" with examples. Check my BM history of trades and look at the Forum "Holiday Card Exchange 2013" and then tell me that "everything outside (America) doesn't exist". We exist with many mooches, BookMooch friends and a wonderful Holiday Exchange.
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I am so tired of many things: International comments from people who have been on the site for less than a month who have little to no experience of BookMooch trading, people who don't send internationally or pick and choose to send internationally who have been on BookMooch for more than a year. I am tired of members who stir the pot to cause trouble internationally. That said, sadly I bought into responding to them, for that I am sorry. I am not sorry for being a huge supporter of BookMooch and a community of people who want to trade books without drama.
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@WM: I didn't say "All Americans" or "All American Bookmooch Members", I said "Americans", because I was referring to the Internet as a whole, and there are countless examples of sites that simply assume from the get-go that everything (starting with the English language itself - AE without acknowledging BE) is American. (Obviously big companies have an interest to provide delivery into other countries, but a lot of sites don't belong to that category). A good example of the top of my head is TV tropes, which specifies in some pages that it relates to US, but in most pages, just describes the situation in the US without mentioning other cultures or countries. That's frustrating.
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Again, tired of the rhetoric and people who stir up controversy just to be heard, it is sad.
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@WM, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I know where it comes from. I'm not complaining about the fees of postal service : you'll notice, even if it's been less than a month that I'm a member, that I've already sent 4 books to the US. I was just explaining for the benefit of someone living in Europe or elsewhere outside North America, that because of geopolitical borders, prices for shipping are not dependent on distance here. Maybe it's because I'm from Quebec that I feel the urge to let a big majority know their bellybutton isn't the only interesting place out there (I believe Catalans, Basques, Scots, Tibetans and Natives from many countries who got almost exterminated by European power nations at one time or another in history would relate a little more to this point of view). I'm not trying to complain only for the sake of complaining. I noticed something that seems unworthy of a website that claims to be international and wanted to know what were the opinions of other users of the site so we can have an intelligent debate without insult towards anyone, no matter how different their opinion from our own. I know I shouldn't expect such a thing as "an intelligent debate without insults" on the Internet, but call me a dreamer, I'll keep trying !
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I looked up a few definitions in 5 languages I understand and it seems the distinction between US (or USA) and America varies a lot depending on the language. In English and Italian the two terms are interchangeable and accepted one for the other. In both languages "Americas" is usually used in the plural form to differentiate the 3 (North, Center and South) continents from the country. In German it's not official, but it's understood and accepted in common language. Whereas in both French and Spanish, "América" and "Amérique" could only mean the continent and another use (i.e. to designate the country) would be a translation or geographical error, hence my reluctance to see it in the correspondence (my first language is French). So, as long as the e-mails and the site are displayed in English, this isn't really a mistake. I thought I should make that clear after the debate I caused.
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Sebastien,
Thanks for the language info. Very interesting, but I have question. I am a little unclear about the American and Amerique (sorry no accented e on my computer). What do the French and Spanish call a person from the US? At least to our face :>)
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@Roo,
In French, the still official term is "Américain", which is simply the translation of "American". But the Canadian province of Québec (the only one to be officially French speaking and the one I'm from), being extra careful not to include too may anglicisms in its language (out of fear of being assimilated, if you think it's ridiculous, look up the history of Acadia and Louisiana), coined the term "États-Uniens" or "Étatsuniens" (roughly translated as "Unitedstatesians"). the later is now officially accepted, even preferred, in Québec, but still sparsely used anywhere. In France the term is heavily debated and discarded by many as either too intellectual or anti-historical, even if technically accepted as correct, especially since it offers an option for a missing lexical term (because "Américain" also refers to citizens of the 3 continents, the exact meaning is usually deduced by the context). I recommend this article from the NY Times which was originally written in French but translated for the publication purpose : http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/opinion/06rousseau.html.As for Spanish, I found "Estadounidense" and "Estadunidense" to be official. I found that "Norteamericano" is sometimes used although technically it also refers to Canadians and Mexicans and the former is preferred. The term "Americano" in this context is considered an error but I believe it may be understood by many to mean people living in the USA, depending on context. Maybe someone from Latin America or Spain can weight in on that ?
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In the parts of South America I am familiar with, the term americano refers to anyone from North or South America. Referring to oneself as americano is understood, but considered a bit boorish. In Spain, in my experience, estadounidense is preferred, but americano/a is used more often than in South America. However, Spanish is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world; the worldwide diversity is staggering. My experiences are by no means "the last word" on the subject.
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Thanks for your input Ashley ! It's mostly as I thought from the research I've made. I'd like to add that in Italian, "statunitense" (united-statesians) is more common than "americano", but both are used.
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